Will 8.0 Expansion Cap @ L55 ?

[Mikey_R]

As others have said, by reducing the level, all you do is increase the EXP needed per level, so it makes no difference, level is just a number after all.

If the issue is it takes too long, especially for a new player, I would think the actual wall is the MSQ. If we assume it takes 30 hours per expansion, over 5 expansions, that is already 150 hours and that is just for the Hydaelyn/Zodiark arc, not anything after plus the fact that that is likely a lower estimate.

Having some sort of secondary starting point is the most logical thing to do where I would say the start of DT is where the point should be. It is after the Hydaelyn/Zodiark arc, I don't think starting at the void is a good point, which leaves the start of DT.

I will also say, I do not agree with having an expansion 'start fresh' as, whilst it might be nice for a new player as they can learn as they go, it would feel really bad for experienced players having to start from scratch, there is already a bad stigma around low level content, so why would you force it onto everyone?

As for levelling secondary jobs, I can also see that as a detriment for someone wanting to try another job, being level 100 and wanting to try, say, Monk, which starts at level 1, that could be a deterrent. A system could be put in place that allows you to choose the starting level, level 1, 50, 60, 70, etc. with the job quests completed up to the unlock level. The caveat here is that you can only unlock up to a point, 20 levels below current expansion level cap, just like the jobs that are released in that expansion.

Really, I do believe the issue is time investment. If something takes too long, people will likely be put off by it and masking it behind something else (halving levels) doesn't address the core issue of time taken. By showing you have ways to skip parts of the time taken, it might draw more people in, especially if it is also made clear that there is a system in the game where you can replay the bits you skipped if you want to.

[YumieYumiki]

It's just a number with an arbitrary meaning, I think there are more pressing issues with the game than "number too big"

[Aidorouge]

Really, I do believe the issue is time investment. If something takes too long, people will likely be put off by it and masking it behind something else (halving levels) doesn't address the core issue of time taken. By showing you have ways to skip parts of the time taken, it might draw more people in, especially if it is also made clear that there is a system in the game where you can replay the bits you skipped if you want to.

But none of those new players are likely to go back and play the bits they skipped, especially when they have veteran players breathing down their neck all day telling them everything before level 110 sucks to do. (Just like they do now where "only level 100 matters".)

You might bring some people in but I can't see this kind of setup KEEPING them in the game when they've "seen everything worth doing" in their free month and are told they can quit and come back in a few years to do 120 content because that's the new "only thing that matters". It's short-term gains at best, and all while equating ARR/HW/STB/SHB/EW/DT to being the "filler arc" now because new shining starting point with none of that stuffy old baggage of a story to stop people from sitting in endgame PFs all day instead.

[Deejudanne]

But none of those new players are likely to go back and play the bits they skipped, especially when they have veteran players breathing down their neck all day telling them everything before level 110 sucks to do. (Just like they do now where "only level 100 matters".)

legit never heard anyone say that

[ReynTime]

legit never heard anyone say that

Then you don't go around online much because it's extremely common on big discords, twitch, youtube, reddit, etc...

[TheDustyOne]

I don't see any need for a level squish. New players will already have to scale the wall that is MSQ in order to get to the endgame, just because their level says 60 instead of 100 after 200+ hours of story won't change how long the MSQ. If a skip is provided to get to the latest expansion, you could just as easily have this new player start at 90 or 100 and already at the start of whatever expansion is latest.

That said, I also don't want to go beyond 100 either. I feel it's a good stopping point for levelling if they're willing to go down other avenues of growth. But that's just me, more than likely whatever system they come up with will end up being level 110 in all but name.

[Veritas-Ancora]

That said, I also don't want to go beyond 100 either. I feel it's a good stopping point for levelling if they're willing to go down other avenues of growth. But that's just me, more than likely whatever system they come up with will end up being level 110 in all but name.

That's really the whole point. I think stopping at L100 or squishing things is the way to go. Telling a brand new player that they have 109 levels to go is a lot to ask for anyone.

[Deejudanne]

Then you don't go around online much because it's extremely common on big discords, twitch, youtube, reddit, etc...

twitch streams is the most boring shit ngl reddit idk i got 80k points there discord im in every single eu raiding one, "oh no why arent you in normal 14 discords?" because it gets old seeing the same posts over and over "oh no i got aurum vale again rip"

[Aidorouge]

legit never heard anyone say that

It's pretty much the primary argument for some of the people who keep insisting new players should have a skip that takes them straight into Dawntrail, preferably already set up to grind endgame. No MSQ, no leveling, just right into the PF pipeline they go with certain side content auto-unlocked (like Deep Dungeons or Field Operations). It's usually prefaced by some comment like "I tried to get all my friends into the game but they doubled over in pure agony the moment that old man talked to them on the chocobo cart because the story is SOOOOO BORING and they quit instead of buying all the digital collections, max retainers, and everything on the mogstation."

It's why I have my doubts that the veteran players who keep begging for it actually care about "new player experiences" and are just trying to extradite new meat for the grinder, and then proceed to exaggerate about how terrible levels 1-99 are, or how if these hypothetical new players could just be rushed to the end of the game they'll become lifetime subscribers handing over mad money if only that wicked MSQ and leveling was done away with.

It gets even weirder when you see some of them glaze HW/STB/SHB's plot yet when they suddenly want skips for new players, it all goes into the same furnace they already threw ARR and DT into.

Final Fantasy 14 is ultimately a story-driven/centric MMO, and telling new players "it all sucks/it just gets in the way" isn't the glowing endorsement for the game they think it is and no shit their friends didn't stick around when their veteran buddy is tagging along behind them whining the whole way for them to mash the skip cutscene button already so they can hurry up and farm the newest Savage tier together.

It's not exactly subtle what some of these veteran players actually want, and if they're going to act like SE is "throwing away money" by not letting their friends skip for free, they're more than welcome to buy their friends the skips instead if they're THAT CONFIDENT that it's the only thing stopping their friends from sticking around.

I do get wanting the MSQ to be trimmed down a bit because there IS fat we could do without, or letting side content not be locked behind the MSQ (or its self in the case of PoTD), and I'm 100% on board letting veteran players have lifetime all-in-one free skips for all of their own alts. But trivializing, if not outright trashing, the MSQ for new players just makes me question why they would play an Final Fantasy MMO when they're made to bypass all of the Final Fantasy parts and are repeatedly made to believe that "only endgame matters". At that point they would be better off playing other games with their friends who clearly hate story and cutscenes and just want to jump right into the action. I don't want Square-Enix thinking the MSQ is so unwanted by so many that they don't even bother with it anymore, slapping a big old "oh well, the end" on 8.0 because they think nobody cares and just wants to raid all day every day on the first day.

But hey, if said veteran players are going to insist that the worst part of this MMORPG is the RPG part, than I better damn well get something to bypass the MMO part because I find it equally awful to deal with. They can have their free skips for all new players when I get Trusts in all normal content, even the side stuff. Everyone wins getting to play only the specific content they want, casual or hardcore, with the people they want, real or NPC.

[Iscah]

That's really the whole point. I think stopping at L100 or squishing things is the way to go. Telling a brand new player that they have 109 levels to go is a lot to ask for anyone.

So just don't tell them in those terms. I didn't start the game with any expectation of what the end point would be.

Plus it makes it sound like the whole game as an obstacle rather than an experience they might want to enjoy.

Also, regardless of how you present it, the real count is "six RPGs" and changing the level count isn't going to make it any shorter.