HOUSING NEEDS TO CHANGE

[Solowing]

Yep, you really must not care when you can't help but complain about how it would be unfair to you when anyone asks for housing in the game to be expanded and more accessible to all players.

Nystra was right, yall really can't admit to the unfairness it creates lol. You guys really will do not handle inconvenience truths, you'll simply ignore it and just press through it anyway.

[Solowing]

"How do ya make a decision thats fair?"

"Ya cant, somebody always feels like its not fair to them, and the fairest decisions, those are the ones where everybody feels screwed."

[Jojoya]

In any financial transaction there is one question both parties have to ask themselves, what leverage do I have in this transaction? (in regards to a plot) and the answer in your case is none. "~2 and a half men"

You keep subbing until you get a plot (not housing because you already have access to it via apartments), and if you have to keep using it or you lose it, indirectly tied you to sub a few times a year. It's a game where the house always wins. And you're asking the house to give up leverage. An they arnt going to.

Players always have a form of leverage (you mention it yourself) but for most it's also tied to things outside of housing so they don't make use of it.

If they're not willing to use their leverage, then housing isn't as important to them as they try to make it sound.

I won't say you're arguing in bad faith. We've argued for years and I have no reason to think you don't believe what you say (unless you start off with saying it's hypothetical or similar). But I frequently disagree with much of what you say.

It's not a matter of what SE can do with housing. It's what SE should do with housing for player satisfaction and retention. There's clearly dissatisfaction with the housing system but as that doesn't seem to be having much impact on player retention, SE has no pressure on them to make changes.

Players have to decide if they can live with that or if they're going to start using their leverage.

[Xylira]

"How do ya make a decision thats fair?"

"Ya cant, somebody always feels like its not fair to them, and the fairest decisions, those are the ones where everybody feels screwed."

And that's also how life is in general. But that doesn't mean you should just throw your hands up and give up because a very vocal and unreasonable minority of people are going to endlessly whine about how their special little privilege was made a little less special if more people have access to it.

[Solowing]

And that's also how life is in general. But that doesn't mean you should just throw your hands up and give up because a very vocal and unreasonable minority of people are going to endlessly whine about how their special little privilege was made a little less special if more people have access to it.

Everything is never going to be completely fair and equitable for everybody, and I'm aware of that. You have some fairy dust and unicorn kisses idea that that world can be made truly fair for everyone, and the fairness line keeps getting redrawn in different locations. And you're like "So what?"

You're not willing to address that issue, but want your own issue addressed. How is that fair?

[Connor]

Does any of it even matter when the housing system is already developed though? They literally can’t just delete them all and start again with instances or the like; it would be too massive an undertaking for poor indie company SE to redo the entire housing system. They don’t even have enough devs for the amount of combat classes they have, never mind something like a housing overhaul.

That said, none of that is a barrier to ‘making housing more accessible to general players’ in whatever way. I really don’t see any downside to that; it’s perfectly doable and benefits the greatest amount of players, so why not? The only issue there is technical limitations, I.E server memory at capacity meaning no space to add new wards etc. But putting that aside I can’t see how it would be detrimental in any way if housing was made more available so everyone could have one (however they managed to do it)

[Xylira]

Everything is never going to be completely fair and equitable for everybody, and I'm aware of that. You have some fairy dust and unicorn kisses idea that that world can be made truly fair for everyone. There are other posters telling that and you ignore it and push on anyway like it is possible without pissing anyone off

It's literally only you that's getting 'pissed off', and it seems entirely based upon your entitlement that your house isn't perceived as being diminished in any way.

And there is a way to address the issue of having both instanced housing and ward housing fairly.

Separate the idea of a ward plot and a house. Your current ward plot is your ward plot, the house on it is a separate entity. The demo timer is for the ward plot and only the plot. If the demo timer expires, you lose the plot, but your house gets transferred from the ward plot into a solo instance with all of it's furniture and decorations left as they presently are. Conversely, an instanced home could be seamlessly transferred from a solo instance onto a ward plot, if said ward plot is won through the current lottery system.

That's how you can have instanced housing available to all players and also actually improve the ward system, because then you wouldn't actually lose your house if the demo timer expires, only the plot it's on. If you want to maintain a ward plot then you have to contend with the demo timer system, so that all players who specifically want their house to be in a ward still have the opportunity to access the system. If you don't, you get to keep your house, but you only give up the ward plot.

[Solowing]

It's literally only you that's getting 'pissed off', and it seems entirely based upon your entitlement that your house isn't perceived as being diminished in any way.

And there is a way to address the issue of having both instanced housing and ward housing fairly.

Separate the idea of a ward plot and a house. Your current ward plot is your ward plot, the house on it is a separate entity. The demo timer is for the ward plot and only the plot. If the demo timer expires, you lose the plot, but your house gets transferred from the ward plot into a solo instance with all of it's furniture and decorations left as they presently are. Conversely, an instanced home could be seamlessly transferred from a solo instance onto a ward plot, if said ward plot is won through the current lottery system.

That's how you can have instanced housing available to all players and also actually improve the ward system, because then you wouldn't actually lose your house if the demo timer expires, only the plot it's on. If you want to maintain a ward plot then you have to contend with the demo timer system, so that all players who specifically want their house to be in a ward still have the opportunity to access the system. If you don't, you get to keep your house, but you only give up the ward plot.

I didn't ask you to move it and I don't want to move. I like it right where I am. But because I already have a plot, you're punishing me for lapsing a sub when someone else who just started wont forcibly be moved out of their location if they were gone for 6 months?

You are wanting to experience the ward plot, by holding me to its rules to kick me out of my ward location for being inactive so someone can take it. But themselves aren't inherently subjected to that rule because they don't already have a plot subjected to the demo timer.

You're unknowingly punishing those who already have by holding them to rules that others are exempt from their later join date.

If you want fair. Allow already established players the choice to turn off the demo timer to their plot. So I'm not punished for already having it.

[Xylira]

I didn't ask you to move it and I don't want to move. I like it right where I am. But because I already have a plot, you're punishing me for lapsing a sub when someone else who just started wont have that problem?

And there's that entitlement I was talking about.

You want to both keep your ward plot and not have to deal with the demo timer system. You also don't want players to be able to have access to housing unless they have to suffer with demo timers as well, even if they don't have a home within a ward and all of the benefits that come with being in a ward that you're so adamant you don't want to give up. All of this is despite the fact that the only reason why demo timers exist is purely due to the finite nature of ward plots due to technical limitation of their flawed design.

Your perspective on the issue is incredibly selfish.

[Solowing]

And there's that entitlement I was talking about.

You want to both keep your ward plot and not have to deal with the demo timer system. You also don't want players to be able to have access to housing unless they have to suffer with demo timers as well, even if they don't have a home within a ward and all of the benefits that come with being in a ward that you're so adamant you don't want to give up. All of this is despite the fact that the only reason why demo timers exist is purely due to the finite nature of ward plots due to technical limitation of their flawed design.

Your perspective on the issue is incredibly selfish.

And we are circling back to that same argument. Equality vs Equity. Why are you holding players to different rulesets for the same functioning housing system? Its more fair to hold everyone to the same system and rules

Like I said, we all have the same opportunity for a Plot, you're seeking equal outcome

Im simply asking turn the demo timer off for everyone, or turn it on for everyone.

Not "this group can deal with it, and this group doesn't have to"

I think I'm being rather fair.


Equality ensures identical rights, opportunities, and treatment, but it does not guarantee universal happiness, as individual satisfaction is driven by diverse needs, preferences, and personal circumstances

(I disagree with you, but I'm having fun with the thoughts that go into it, people go to college for deeper subject matter like this.)