Adloquium and Eukrian Diagnosis should be a guaranteed crit outside of combat.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Why are we trying to prevent use of recitation early

Recitation is already far far too powerful and should be nerfed, not buffed

Because the only situation it would replace Recitation is fights where you have two tanks and a boss that hits both of them. Because once again, you can achieve a crit on the main tank before the pull by just spamming Adlo/Eukrasia until you roll it.
A guaranteed crit before the pull would just make it more consistent, and it would allow SGE to do it as well since they don't have a version of Recitation.

[Supersnow845]

I mean that happens enough that it’s still a pointlessly excessive buff for SCH, paired tankbusters in the first 30 seconds aren’t uncommon and double autos are just as common as they aren’t

[CaptainLagbeard]

I mean that happens enough that it’s still a pointlessly excessive buff for SCH, paired tankbusters in the first 30 seconds aren’t uncommon and double autos are just as common as they aren’t

I would point out that the "excessive buff" would to some extent be for both SCH and SGE, and is that tanks in Extreme and Savage start off enough shielding for a few auto attacks from the boss. SCH gets slightly more since they can spread the crit Adlo, but Deployment would only spread half of the shield because it doesn't spread Catalyze.

Ultimately, for Extreme and Savage, it wouldn't even be all that impactful as the shield's mostly spent by the time the boss does anything other than auto-attacks.
For dungeons, they're not even hard to begin with but would make them easier.
Deep Dungeons, you would get a good amount of extra shield going into every mob.

[Supersnow845]

Deployment only spreading galvanise is a null point because of how much more powerful adlo is on a per shield basis than succor but honestly the problem isn’t deployment it’s recitation.

Recitation is just too powerful simply because it can do so many things. It’s not only what you use for spreadlo but it also allows for critcog and critdom (~664 potency AOE heal with no cost or ~1328 potency heal bomb with no cost on one target)

Any change you make that frees up a use of recitation is a buff to SCH and a pretty big one. Think if you did this and there was a shared TB in the first 30 seconds you now have one extra free recitation OR the tank who would have consumed your recitation to get the second critlo/critcog can now basically use that mitigation wherever else they want in the first 2 minutes. The second option is a benefit SGE would get in this change but the first is exclusively a SCH benefit as SGE has no answer to recitation

[Carighan]

I would argue it's not a buff at all, because either way you start the fight with a crit shield ready to go.

It just differs whether you spend 0 (my solution, no shields from before fight persist into the fight), 1 (OP's solution) or 1-X GCDs getting there. You start with the crit shield regardless.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I'm not sure I want to see devs shoehorning SCHs to almost always use (crit) spreadlo at beginning even more with this change, because ultimately not all fights demands the degree of crit spreadlo mitigative potential that early (It always pains me to see random SCH opt to use Recitspreadlo everytime it's up but half of the time not getting consumed). I, for one do not always start any floors with a (crit) spreadlo simply because it was also the time when people tend to overmitigate. Why waste a spreadlo or recit that early when you can potentially move it to handle something else? Regular spreadlo still have some use, yanno?

For SGE? Why do they even need Differential Diagnosis lol...

[CaptainLagbeard]

Deployment only spreading galvanise is a null point because of how much more powerful adlo is on a per shield basis than succor but honestly the problem isn’t deployment it’s recitation.

Recitation is just too powerful simply because it can do so many things. It’s not only what you use for spreadlo but it also allows for critcog and critdom (~664 potency AOE heal with no cost or ~1328 potency heal bomb with no cost on one target)

Any change you make that frees up a use of recitation is a buff to SCH and a pretty big one. Think if you did this and there was a shared TB in the first 30 seconds you now have one extra free recitation OR the tank who would have consumed your recitation to get the second critlo/critcog can now basically use that mitigation wherever else they want in the first 2 minutes. The second option is a benefit SGE would get in this change but the first is exclusively a SCH benefit as SGE has no answer to recitation

If you're going to use Recitation on Excog, then this wouldn't really even change anything. Because recitation still is on a 60s CD alongside excog's 45s CD. And you can't even pre-cast Excog without spending Recitation because you can't get Aetherflows outside of combat.
The amount of shield that would still be around from starting with a critlo would be less than what you would get from a non-crit cast when the boss starts casting their first TB or raidwide. Only the off tank would be able to keep their shield up, and only if the boss doesn't hit them in which case the off tank needs less mit anyways because they're not taking damage.


Edit:
Let me try to rephrase this argument in a different manner...
Is it really actually worth it to spend a Recitation before the pull to get a Critlo on one tank, and then possibly not have recitation for your first excog?
Personally, I don't think it is, because the Critlo doesn't shield enough that it would be a complete game changer. It's a nice bonus when you get to start with a critlo, but it ultimately only helps until the first mechanic of any given boss really.

The change I am suggesting, would just allow both SCH and SGE to always start off with the crit shield on the tanks. It IS a buff, but a very small one for SGE and a slightly bigger one for SCH because the full effect of it is that you're guaranteed to be able to Deployment a critlo. Unless there is a genuine reason to spend a Recitation on your first Adlo over Excog.

[Supersnow845]

I would argue it's not a buff at all, because either way you start the fight with a crit shield ready to go.

It just differs whether you spend 0 (my solution, no shields from before fight persist into the fight), 1 (OP's solution) or 1-X GCDs getting there. You start with the crit shield regardless.

I wouldn’t say it’s a buff for single target damage but if both tanks get smacked either by autos early or even a shared TB (like I think of P2 because I’ve been off the savage train for a bit now) it’s a pretty big buff for SCH because you can have 2 critlo’s up without spending recitation

Like using P2 again both the initial raidwide and shared TB come up in the first 30 seconds, you can shield both tanks and critdom the raidwide, or spread one shield for the first radwide then critdom the second with minimal resource use from anyone else

It’s a narrow niche but considering that it also massively buffs both in casual content and it’s not like SCH needs help I think it’s a buff that doesn’t need to happen

Especially since ideally we’d like them to stop with the same generic raidwide/TB opener

[Carighan]

I think you misunderstood. We already pre-shield like that. Like right now it's just fishing for the crit on the pre-pull shield. But even now we all start with a crit-shield on the tanks. That part would not change. I think that was OP's point, anyways. Factually nothing changes, it just removes the need to spam-cast before a pull until a crit happens.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I think you misunderstood. We already pre-shield like that. Like right now it's just fishing for the crit on the pre-pull shield. But even now we all start with a crit-shield on the tanks. That part would not change. I think that was OP's point, anyways. Factually nothing changes, it just removes the need to spam-cast before a pull until a crit happens.

Pretty much, the only real change would be that because you don't need to fish for those crits, you could also apply a second crit shield on the off tank as well. Which you current could do theoretically with recitation on SCH, but that CD is probably better spent on Excog than a pre-pull off tank shield.