Picto painting potency should be readjusted

[Kishin12345]

If you want to talk about numbers. Picto is losing to blm (the job it is supposed to be competing with dps wise) in every fight except 10s and 12s p1 by 1k to upward of nearly 2k rdps (looking at you Tyrant and Lindwurm 2). I think people will start screaming if Mnk is that far behind Sam in any encouter. Speaking which, I do think the gap between Mnk and Sam is where Picto and blm should be. Currently, There is very few reasons to go picto over blm or even rdm. You have to put in so much more effort to play picto compared to blm, and your rotation offers significantly less freedom than both Rdm and Blm. Contrary to popular belief, Picto as a job is extremely restrictive in its rotation at a high level of play. The job becomes even more restrictive if you engage with its core optimization tool which is called magenta skipping. The tldr is that it basically took out all your movement tools such as hammer and comet in black since they are used to stall out your aetherhue timer. The job is frankly speaking quite reminiscent of EW BLM. Except that with EW BLM if you do none-standard stuff right, you are rewarded for being among the best dps in the game, while with picto, you don't even get close on 3 out of the 5 savage fights and even get beat by rdm. It's just a lot of efforts for picto to compete for 2nd (and at times 3rd) place. I don't even think it's going to be that great in the next Ultimate unless the whole fight is a 2 target fight. I genuinely think blm will just be as good if there is a trio phase, and I can see mnk beating it as well. but I could be wrong.

Honestly speaking, if you want to play picto 100% optimally it is the hardest caster to play.
Magenta skipping is more like niche optimization that is not doable with every encounter, because it would take away all mobility tools.
However i go for magenta skips whenever i know i'm fine for the next few mechanics without a lot of mobility.
What i just dont like right now is seeing blm on top, then the whole melee block and then the caster block...
Picto should fit nicely inbetween the melees, maybe a few hundred rdps below monk or so.
I hope we get buffs with 7.45! And i hope it will be buffs that keep the rotation intact. If they buff rgbcym again we will end up not painting again....
Honestly they should buff paintings AND rgbcym

[jd2408]

It is possible to hit all of the magenta skips that are available to you in every fight of the tier, even on really hard fight for picto like the lindwurm 2 or Tyrant. It just requires an ungodly amount of spreadsheeting your rotation and performing the skip during your 2 mins, which is unrealistic for most player, and rewards are frankly not worth it as It will nets you at most 500 to 600 potencies in full uptime fight. Most of these gains come from holy in whites funnily enough since you can press that button without the percieved dps loss due to the holies replacing your "skipped" Fire and Aero which is a slight potency gain. But again, extremely niche, and you are probably better off playing normally and not having to sweats for movement options.

[Carighan]

Main problem with PCT is that it does too much damage, if the fight have downtime while not doing enough if the fight is 100% uptime.

That's not the problem though, that's the solution.

We already have casters with incredibly flat damage profiles that follow a strictly static rotation with no reactivity to the fight and its particular elements and designs. Black Mage.
Hence adding another damage caster late in the game means it has to provide a meaningfully different upside and downside, no? That's Picto. A caster that gets stronger the more downtime breaks there are (ideally many small ones but eh), thereby being at home in fights with downtimes and hating straight-up DPSing (which is where BLM then excels given that's what it wants to do, run its fixed rotation until the end of the universe).

That's... good? That's how you solve the problem of creating more and more classes, new classes are specialists not generalists like the old ones?

[Kishin12345]

That's not the problem though, that's the solution.

We already have casters with incredibly flat damage profiles that follow a strictly static rotation with no reactivity to the fight and its particular elements and designs. Black Mage.
Hence adding another damage caster late in the game means it has to provide a meaningfully different upside and downside, no? That's Picto. A caster that gets stronger the more downtime breaks there are (ideally many small ones but eh), thereby being at home in fights with downtimes and hating straight-up DPSing (which is where BLM then excels given that's what it wants to do, run its fixed rotation until the end of the universe).

That's... good? That's how you solve the problem of creating more and more classes, new classes are specialists not generalists like the old ones?

No thats really bad actually. If someone wants to main picto it should be performing well in all situations otherwise just main blm or rdm because they perform well in full uptime AND downtime fights. My favorite caster right now is picto and i felt "forced" to switch to blm just because picto sucks in 90% of the fights. The small downtimes dont really give picto an edge either. It is doing a little bit less damage than rdm in fights with micro downtimes, so in "actual" full uptime fights it would be doing damage like smn.
This game has more and more problems with potencies being too high warping the damage profiles too much.
If this continues every high potency move is forced to get the "always dh crits" treatment in the future.

[Quotie_Pie]

No thats really bad actually. If someone wants to main picto it should be performing well in all situations otherwise just main blm or rdm because they perform well in full uptime AND downtime fights. My favorite caster right now is picto and i felt "forced" to switch to blm just because picto sucks in 90% of the fights. The small downtimes dont really give picto an edge either. It is doing a little bit less damage than rdm in fights with micro downtimes, so in "actual" full uptime fights it would be doing damage like smn.
This game has more and more problems with potencies being too high warping the damage profiles too much.
If this continues every high potency move is forced to get the "always dh crits" treatment in the future.

Picto is only a few hundred DPS behind Black Mage on full uptime or mostly full uptime fights such as m11s and m12s p2, and is significantly ahead in the fights where it does shine, like m10s or the latest EX. It's not the strongest in every single situation, but it doesn't suck by any means, even in full uptime.

[Kishin12345]

Picto is only a few hundred DPS behind Black Mage on full uptime or mostly full uptime fights such as m11s and m12s p2, and is significantly ahead in the fights where it does shine, like m10s or the latest EX. It's not the strongest in every single situation, but it doesn't suck by any means, even in full uptime.

M11s isnt full uptime tho. You get a "free" swiftcast painting when taking tower for example, downtime for all other jobs.
And when i check numbers i see picto a few hundred below rdm and blm is ahead 1500 to 2000 rdps. I filtered by 95th% because max is very unrealistic because of crit variance.
In m10s it is only ahead because of cleave damage not really because downtime

[Reginald_Cain]

I'm hearing some interesting things in here. Never knew about cool stuff like magenta skipping but I agree picto is much harder than current black mage. I struggle to agree it's harder than red mage since red mage is the only true caster left it feels like. The recent change to manafication however does make using melee combo much easier atleast during the 2 minute burst.

[Reginald_Cain]

That's not the problem though, that's the solution.

We already have casters with incredibly flat damage profiles that follow a strictly static rotation with no reactivity to the fight and its particular elements and designs. Black Mage.
Hence adding another damage caster late in the game means it has to provide a meaningfully different upside and downside, no? That's Picto. A caster that gets stronger the more downtime breaks there are (ideally many small ones but eh), thereby being at home in fights with downtimes and hating straight-up DPSing (which is where BLM then excels given that's what it wants to do, run its fixed rotation until the end of the universe).

That's... good? That's how you solve the problem of creating more and more classes, new classes are specialists not generalists like the old ones?

You have such a different perspective from 99% of forum dwellers. I think your point actually makes sense even if it doesn't fit what the community wants. I think for jobs to be balanced in this way then encounters need to be designed in a much more chaotic and dynamic fashion. Old MMO's were better at this but I think the design philosophy of modern MMO's heavily disincentives such things. Again I think you should either make your own game or serve as consul for someone making a new mmo with old school balance design. I think a mix of old and new could shake up the industry for the better.

[Shurrikhan]

A caster that gets stronger the more downtime breaks there are (ideally many small ones but eh), thereby being at home in fights with downtimes and hating straight-up DPSing (which is where BLM then excels given that's what it wants to do, run its fixed rotation until the end of the universe).

That's... good? That's how you solve the problem of creating more and more classes, new classes are specialists not generalists like the old ones?

It's how you add to the roster, but the extent of the imbalance determines whether you get as many real new choices as you've added jobs, a portion of the new jobs' count as new real choices, or actually end up with even fewer choices than you started with.

Yes, this depends on how deliberately mixed each encounter is to pull on different advantages, as well-mixed fights can offer capacity-centric differences without losing job choice (to differences in overall capacity/value) except based on who else is in the party (pushing parties out of taking all-super-bursty or all-super-sustained, requiring some but not too many AoE "specialists", etc., with any pure "downtime" specialist just being a slightly worst "bursty" outside of fights with forced downtime and slightly overpowered within them, similarly to how Stormblood meant you played comps for anything serious rather than individual jobs), but such fights are few and far between and probably shouldn't be expected to increase in portion.

Moreover, HOW one deals their damage will tend to impact gameplay far more than simply which encounter-characteristics it's advantaged for.

[Quotie_Pie]

M11s isnt full uptime tho. You get a "free" swiftcast painting when taking tower for example, downtime for all other jobs.
And when i check numbers i see picto a few hundred below rdm and blm is ahead 1500 to 2000 rdps. I filtered by 95th% because max is very unrealistic because of crit variance.
In m10s it is only ahead because of cleave damage not really because downtime

I see, I was looking at cDPS.