Adloquium and Eukrian Diagnosis should be a guaranteed crit outside of combat.

[CaptainLagbeard]

It wouldn't necessarily add too much to SCH and SGE, but it would make their ability to shield before a pull more consistent. It'll block a few extra autoattacks in endgame content at the start of the fight if you get a crit shield, and SCH getting to spread the critted Galvanize to the group without having to spend Recitation.

So I suggest that the single target shield heals should be a guaranteed critical if the Healer or their target isn't in combat.

[Carighan]

I'd do the opposite actually (ensure you cannot crit) but otherwise I agree. Removes the need for the spam-shielding.

[Supersnow845]

Does SCH really need another buff

That basically frees up an extra use of recitation while still getting the benefits of spreadlo at the start of a fight

[Connor]

I can understand the reasoning behind it, but wouldn’t this just be kind of like a buff to Scholar? Sage can’t spread their shields, so outside of manually using E. Diagnosis on all 8 party members it wouldn’t make a difference to them. I could understand if if shielding was basically all they could do, but they have a pretty hefty amount of powerful direct heals and regens and ogcd shields to fall back on

I can’t speak for Sage but I think this would just make Scholar even more of a guaranteed raid slot. Between Seraph, Seraphism, and Recitation only being on a 60s cooldown, it seems wholly unnecessary for them to also guarantee they have a crit deployment at the start of battle at no cost.

It would make dungeons pretty hilarious as well if you could have a guaranteed critical Adloquium and Recitation-Excogitation on the tank in between every single pull (not that it would matter with how strong tanks are now, they probably wouldn’t even break or proc lol)

It wouldn’t really fit with raid design either because the ‘party wide unavoidable aoe attack’ is almost always the very first thing they do. It’d be completely invalidated by this change, so there wouldn’t be much of a point to them anymore besides being a ‘do you have a sch to make this do 0’ check lol. Invalidating it with use of a (very short cool-down) ‘valuable’ ability at least has some sort of ‘cost’ involved.

That said, I can understand the issue of ‘you have to wait for a Scholar / Sage to shield pre-battle because of the prevalence of “opens with aoe attack” bosses’. Like we could at least get a little bit more variety lol. Though there are some bosses that don’t do the standard ‘opens with aoe’ too I guess so they are there (somewhere lol), like the horse thing boss in Mistwake.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I can understand the reasoning behind it, but wouldn’t this just be kind of like a buff to Scholar? Sage can’t spread their shields, so outside of manually using E. Diagnosis on all 8 party members it wouldn’t make a difference to them. I could understand if if shielding was basically all they could do, but they have a pretty hefty amount of powerful direct heals and regens and ogcd shields to fall back on

I can’t speak for Sage but I think this would just make Scholar even more of a guaranteed raid slot. Between Seraph, Seraphism, and Recitation only being on a 60s cooldown, it seems wholly unnecessary for them to also guarantee they have a crit deployment at the start of battle at no cost.

It would make dungeons pretty hilarious as well if you could have a guaranteed critical Adloquium and Recitation-Excogitation on the tank in between every single pull (not that it would matter with how strong tanks are now, they probably wouldn’t even break or proc lol)

It wouldn’t really fit with raid design either because the ‘party wide unavoidable aoe attack’ is almost always the very first thing they do. It’d be completely invalidated by this change, so there wouldn’t be much of a point to them anymore besides being a ‘do you have a sch to make this do 0’ check lol. Invalidating it with use of a (very short cool-down) ‘valuable’ ability at least has some sort of ‘cost’ involved.

That said, I can understand the issue of ‘you have to wait for a Scholar / Sage to shield pre-battle because of the prevalence of “opens with aoe attack” bosses’. Like we could at least get a little bit more variety lol. Though there are some bosses that don’t do the standard ‘opens with aoe’ too I guess so they are there (somewhere lol), like the horse thing boss in Mistwake.

Well, Deployment Tactics doesn't spread the Catalyze from a crit, only the basic Galvanize, which does still benefit from a crit as it shields based on the amount healed which is going to be higher with a crit. It'd mostly just be kind of like starting with a stronger Succor for SCH if used with Deployment.

It would be a buff for mostly SCH because of Deployment, since I don't know if the SGE shields would last long enough that you could realistically shield everyone one by one before a pull for them all to last until the first raidwide. Maybe they could give SGE their own version of Deployment Tactics. But ultimately, I honestly don't think it would really matter much beyond that first raidwide hit anyways for non-dungeon content.
The content it would have probably be biggest impact in would deep dungeons.

[Connor]

Well, Deployment Tactics doesn't spread the Catalyze from a crit, only the basic Galvanize, which does still benefit from a crit as it shields based on the amount healed which is going to be higher with a crit. It'd mostly just be kind of like starting with a stronger Succor for SCH if used with Deployment.

It would be a buff for mostly SCH because of Deployment, since I don't know if the SGE shields would last long enough that you could realistically shield everyone one by one before a pull for them all to last until the first raidwide. Maybe they could give SGE their own version of Deployment Tactics. But ultimately, I honestly don't think it would really matter much beyond that first raidwide hit anyways for non-dungeon content.
The content it would have probably be biggest impact in would deep dungeons.

If it’s more for specific content, I could definitely see them doing it ‘just in that content’. Like having it apply just to deep dungeons or variants or whatever, but then it doesn’t apply to things like expert or normal (savage?) raiding. I still think making it ‘universal’ might be a bit too much, at least given Scholar’s current design with Seraph and Seraphism giving it such easy access to free or powerful instant use shielding. But I could see the case for adding it in content ‘where the Scholar is healing alone [and there’s an actual need for the healing lol]’ like later level deep dungeons or quantum variants or whatever else.

[CaptainLagbeard]

If it’s more for specific content, I could definitely see them doing it ‘just in that content’. Like having it apply just to deep dungeons or variants or whatever, but then it doesn’t apply to things like expert or normal (savage?) raiding. I still think making it ‘universal’ might be a bit too much, at least given Scholar’s current design with Seraph and Seraphism giving it such easy access to free or powerful instant use shielding. But I could see the case for adding it in content ‘where the Scholar is healing alone [and there’s an actual need for the healing lol]’ like later level deep dungeons or quantum variants or whatever else.

I'm suggesting it should be for all content, also you CAN currently do what I'm suggesting should be the default by just spamming Adlo until you do get a crit.
Hence why I don't think it would be a huge buff. It would only really be a buff if you wanted to crit Adlo both tanks in 8-man content before the pull since you could now do it without spending Recetiation.

[Connor]

Hence why I don't think it would be a huge buff. It would only really be a buff if you wanted to crit Adlo both tanks in 8-man content before the pull since you could now do it without spending Recetiation.

I could understand that perspective if Recitation had the sole effect of making the next Adloquium/Succor critical. But having access to an extra, entirely free Indomitability or Excogitation on top of everything else just seems ‘too much’.

And I mean, maybe the devs see spamming Adloquium as like, a ‘time cost’ lol. Again I can understand it in certain cases, but I don’t think making it a universal thing that every shield outside of battle automatically crits would work very well. It’s already an extremely strong healer even outside of shields (*laughs in Seraphism Emergency Tactics spam*), so it doesn’t really seem necessary to me when they already have so many alternative tools to use when Deployment isn’t available.

I guess the point is that, while I accept ‘it wouldn’t be a “massive” or “gamebreaking” as I suggested before I still think it would be veering into the ‘too much’ territory personally. Personally I think it’s ok sometimes for jobs to have points that require ‘working around’ and understanding the toolkit to get the most out of it, I.E determining if/when to use Recitation on opener.

Which granted is mostly invalidated by ‘there’s practically always a raid aoe to start so you’re pretty much using it anyway’, but I’d argue that’s more an issue with raid design necessitating the need for deployment at the start of (almost) every fight as opposed to with the job design itself. I mean, I wouldn’t like quit the game or say Scholar was ‘broken forever’ if they did make this change, just that I personally think it’s not really needed when taking a holistic view of Scholar’s capabilities (as a healer at least lol)

[Carighan]

Wouldn't this issue also be solvable by removing all buffs on all players the moment an "important" fight (a boss in a dungeon or 8man or so) starts? No pre-shielding, no pre-regen, no nothing. Even grounds for everyone.

[Supersnow845]

Why are we trying to prevent use of recitation early

Recitation is already far far too powerful and should be nerfed, not buffed