What makes for a good villain?

[Kirutsuki]

I wholeheartedly agree. And this is why I think that some of the most impactful antagonists we could have for 8.0, besides Y'shtola, would be Nanamo Ul Namo, Kan-E-Senna, Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn (aren't we long overdue for another Trident anyway?), Aymeric de Borel, or Lyse Hext.

It would be pretty difficult to make any one of the leaders of Aldenard or even Othard as an antagonist unless they are taken over by some external force.
It would also feel like a low hanging fruit by making something we actually care for suddenly become evil.

I think what would be more impactful is if 7.55 ends with us seeing a massive army coming from the direction of Meracydia where that continents leader somehow has managed to start utilizing the left overs from the Allagan Empire's war, a full blown cinematic cutscene at the end with it setting the stage for 8.0.

And during 8.0 we would probably not even get to meet the leader of Meracydia at all, but we only deal with the might of the army attacking Aldenard, Othard and Garlemald, even places like Dalmasca and only in like 9.0 we've dealt with the immediate threat and head over towards Meracydia with a full Scion party to deal with whatever resulted in Meracydia's attack. Only to find out that Meracydia is no longer just a barren wasteland and that the continent has seen incredible adcancements in just a very short few years.

But that's me just writing stuff off the cuff without really thinking of lore accuracy.

[LeCorbeaux]

It would be pretty difficult to make any one of the leaders of Aldenard or even Othard as an antagonist unless they are taken over by some external force.
It would also feel like a low hanging fruit by making something we actually care for suddenly become evil.

Not "evil", just antagonists. Though from my Duskwight point of view, the Gridanians already are pretty evil, so there's not much to change for me to love beating them up.

[Kirutsuki]

A failure is a failure, no matter if we are in 2010, 2026 or 1850 or building pyramids.

They did exactly what you asked, permanent changes (caused by an ancient black dragon).
That said, something may be changed here and there but don't expect anything complex in the source in a mmorpg themepark like ff14.

Well, in the end I would just want to see those smaller changes even. Something similar to Allied Society changes, but in the overworld, for like a specific period in the update cycle.
Be it from 8.0 to 8.3 there could be like some extra enemies or assets around the shores of Aldernard or whatever, and once the situation is handled in let's say 8.5 those assets would get removed.
With some small reminders here and there that this thing happened. Like that one spraypaint on the wall in Idyllshire if you've done Hildibrand Quests.

I don't see Zoraal ja as the main villain of the expansion.

Well yea Zoraal Ja was really meant to be the villain for Wuk. So it's really not a fair comparison to be comparing existential threats to wannabe villains. But on the same token they hyped up Zoraal Ja a bit much during Endwalker as this warmongering conquering individual when in reality he had never conquered really anything until he took over Alexandria. And yea it would be more fair to compare him to other semi-main MSQ villains, in that sense I suppose it serves it's purpose.

[Kirutsuki]

Not "evil", just antagonists. Though from my Duskwight point of view, the Gridanians already are pretty evil, so there's not much to change for me to love beating them up.

Not only evil, but racist as well if memory reserves me.
But it's also weird cause in the MSQ we've dealt with the Garleans or even dealth with their internal issues, but when you go talk to some Gridanian NPC's they still say stuff as if nothing's changed, as if the Garleans are still at their doorsteps, as if the Ixal are still invading their land and it's always such a whiplash for me to remind myself that yes these people literally live in a bubble where nothing changes.

[LeCorbeaux]

And that's where 8.0 (or later) could come in and make a change. Force Kan-E-Senna to give up being the dictator (since the reasons for it aren't present any more) and give the control back to the Seedseer Council, ideally with participation and acknowledgement of the Duskwight and Keeper of the Moon populations. See how the cutthroat politics around the Trident pan out, and if Merlwyb manages to keep the Admiral title. Come back to Nanamo's idea of turning Ul'dah into a republic or something like that, without it turning into a ruthless plutocracy. And all these stories could put the three into the role of the antagonist (less so for Nanamo, I guess...) without them being evil - and without us being able to simply "solve" the issue by hitting them really hard with a stick.

[Kirutsuki]

And that's where 8.0 (or later) could come in and make a change. Force Kan-E-Senna to give up being the dictator (since the reasons for it aren't present any more) and give the control back to the Seedseer Council, ideally with participation and acknowledgement of the Duskwight and Keeper of the Moon populations. See how the cutthroat politics around the Trident pan out, and if Merlwyb manages to keep the Admiral title. Come back to Nanamo's idea of turning Ul'dah into a republic or something like that, without it turning into a ruthless plutocracy. And all these stories could put the three into the role of the antagonist (less so for Nanamo, I guess...) without them being evil - and without us being able to simply "solve" the issue by hitting them really hard with a stick.

Yup, it could be an interesting way to take things for sure. The treaty was done all the way back in ARR and it has hold true to this day even when no immediate threat is present and while clearly they do still see the ascians probably being a future threat, if there's even a slight change in the politics of one city state it could change things fast.But I feel like the devs are not willign to make a drastic change like that specifically because it would make the players pretty pissed off if their favorite city is suddenly on the antagonistic side of things.

And without overworld PvP they can't even act out their dreams of being a villain

[Connor]

And that's where 8.0 (or later) could come in and make a change. Force Kan-E-Senna to give up being the dictator (since the reasons for it aren't present any more) and give the control back to the Seedseer Council.

From what I remember about The Black Shroud / Gridania isn’t it literally impossible for a Padjal to cede leadership except to another Padjal? At the end of the day, it’s the Elementals that determine the law in that area (I.E no/extremely limited outsiders, no white mages unless we give the go ahead, etc). Nobody else can communicate with them properly I think? If they tried to make any sort of policy changes to how they live in the Shroud without consulting the elementals wouldn’t they just apocalypse them all (again lol).

Effectively, Kan-E-Senna isn’t really the leader of Gridania as much as the mouthpiece of the actual leader (elementals). Which makes sense when the alternative is going for a very long, very deep swim lol.

[Daralii]

From what I remember about The Black Shroud / Gridania isn’t it literally impossible for a Padjal to cede leadership except to another Padjal? At the end of the day, it’s the Elementals that determine the law in that area (I.E no/extremely limited outsiders, no white mages unless we give the go ahead, etc). Nobody else can communicate with them properly I think? If they tried to make any sort of policy changes to how they live in the Shroud without consulting the elementals wouldn’t they just apocalypse them all (again lol).

Effectively, Kan-E-Senna isn’t really the leader of Gridania as much as the mouthpiece of the actual leader (elementals). Which makes sense when the alternative is going for a very long, very deep swim lol.

Myths of the Realm tried to soft retcon how brutal the elementals can be by having Nophica talk about how they love mankind so much but don't know how to express it or understand us, which got rid of a lot of the reason why padjal leadership is important. They used to play the role of mediator and needed institutional power to keep people in line, because everyone was at risk of getting wiped out otherwise.

[Reginald_Cain]

I think with ff14 the top villains are emet number 1 for sympathetic villains, The heavensward and thordan were our best pure evil villains.

Zenos sucks a villain for stormblood and got carried by shinryu's coolness in the final fight ,and worked better as an anti hero x shonen rival like in endwalker.

Yotsuyu was the second best sympathetic villain but she kinda walks closer to the side of cruelty than emet but it feels organic given her life time of abuse and exploitation she experienced at the hands of those more powerful than her.

Hermes and Endsinger are just meh

Illberd pissed me off but it made him a good villain imo. He exploited the ala mhigan plight masterfully and convinced his country men to needlessly sacrifice themselves for his goal.

Gaius was meh until the werlyt questline and fall of garlemald. He was a hardened veteran who saw the horrors of war and i think while Gaius was a little blinded my patriotism , his motivation for conquering eorzea and ending the primal threat was almost sound. However his psycho gf slaughtering my friends will never be forgiven. I like Gaius as a character even if I dont think he was that irrational villain.

[Reginald_Cain]

Now if you guys wanted a truly evil twisted mother trucker for an expansion theni believe before endwalker came out we shoulda got a garlemald expansion with Valens Van Verro as the villain. This guy is disgusting and it made sorrows of werlyt a far more memorable story line