Add Stone, Sky, Sea Completion as Savage Unlock Requirement

[theunhappypotato]

Why do you think fflogs and tomestones exist?

mainly for self improvement or well to see who is sandbagging your group

[ZUZ]

Savage in itself is already gatekeeping people because of how unapproachable it is to the general playerbase. If another layer of obstacle is added, it would significantly reduce even the number of people who want to attempt Savage.

I don't think a 3-minute training dummy requirement makes Savage unapproachable. It's a reasonable baseline skill check for the content tier. To encourage engagement, they could even add a one-time tome reward for clearing each SSS dummy.

Improving SSS would help more players feel prepared for Savage. Imagine getting a title for clearing one like some variation of [Battle-Ready]. Imagine if each one was 3 mins of a the real thing except tuned to a single player so people can actually practice in a moving environment.

Again, my original suggestion would be a starting point. There are countless ways to make it feel less like an obstacle and make it so Savage is actually accessible instead of having people just jump straight into the fire for each fight.

[Kohashi]

The bottom line is PF's expectation is out of sync with reality, doing this would only highten that expectation and increace the irritation.

Damn right it does.

I cannot talk about other people's experiences, but let me tell you mine.

M10s so far.

First party -> down to 59%
Second party -> 69% despite the requirements being clear.
Third -> 53% Basically hard stuck there cause the difference between first, and this is not that much.
4-th -> 43% I guess, finally making some progress, and second and third parties were trap parties.
5-th - 23% hell ye.. let's go.. time to clean and clear
6th- Nope.. back to 51%
7-th+ 8-th-> 17%
9th -> 29%

so only 1st, 4th, and 5th were actual parties, and 60% of the parties were trap parties. Mind you, many of these ppl were also those who had already cleared, and they were supposed to know the fight too. Is my expectation out of synch? With what exactly?

[Kaurhz]

I don't see how in a difficulty where numbers are almost everything, as to why -- or how -- expecting people to have met that fundamental 'minimum' requirement on a dummy is gatekeeping.

I get the need to be righteous, but this ain't a good campaign for it.

[PyurBlue]

You make it sound like it's a 10 steps 2 weeks worth of grind/prep when in fact it's nothing like that. It bothers me more that people are okay with wasting 7 other ppls time than actually unlocking 1 quest and spending 3 minutes in it.

It's not a huge obstacle, no. Though I would still call it unnecessary. You can already control who gets the 7 other slots in your party and requiring SSS wouldn't mean that DPS checks are cleared because striking dummy uptime and savage uptime are completely different things.

The need to eliminate even the smallest possibility of friction from the game also concerns me because its likely contributing to design choices like the 2 minute window. I don't want the game to center around logging in, doing stuff as fast as possible, and then logging off. I'm sure that some may look at this post and see it as hyperbole in this situation but if raiding is so unbearable that people can't tolerate any setbacks then maybe the problem is with the content itself. Either because it's trying to cater to too many people at once (people wanting gear vs people wanting to test themselves for example) or because it's not really enjoyable in the first place.

[ZUZ]

I don't see how in a difficulty where numbers are almost everything, as to why -- or how -- expecting people to have met that fundamental 'minimum' requirement on a dummy is gatekeeping.

I get the need to be righteous, but this ain't a good campaign for it.

I mean, it is gatekeeping. But it can also be a preparation tool. I'm trying hard to imagine how a new player might prepare for the new savage tier and the only progression path I really see is getting over-geared, watching a guide online, and slamming their heads against the current EX until they clear it. When I first started I joined a static for ARR/HW raids and even then I felt unprepared for what current savage is like.

Adding adequate and optional preparation tools like actual 3 min version of bosses as solo instance for practice would probably be out of SE's budget. My original suggestion just keeps in mind how limited the budget is.

They already have the SSS, lets use them, give people one-time completion rewards, and I'd at least have more faith in PF.

[MikeCake]

I think it should be expected to face the unknown when going with PF, having extra locks to savage seems performative. If you are so tired of PF, try form a static that matches your need.

We don't need additional requirements for this, doing damage in the actual fight is also way different than just throwing your rotation on the dummy.

There's always going to be trolls and trap parties, that is just how PF is and always will be, with or without a seastone lock. If you are worried about damage lock yourself with higher iLvl, there is already tools in the PF there for you to use.

[ZUZ]

I think it should be expected to face the unknown when going with PF, having extra locks to savage seems performative. If you are so tired of PF, try form a static that matches your need.

We don't need additional requirements for this, doing damage in the actual fight is also way different than just throwing your rotation on the dummy.

There's always going to be trolls and trap parties, that is just how PF is and always will be, with or without a seastone lock. If you are worried about damage lock yourself with higher iLvl, there is already tools in the PF there for you to use.

I've always been aware of how unknown PF is going to be. I've cleared Light-Heavyweight week 1 purely though PF this expansion. iLvl lock just makes up for inadequacy and doesn't filter performance.

Yes, a static would be best. I just think having to resort to it is lame.

[TheRealQuah]

~This is great idea. It would stop those who are incapable of doing their basic rotation get carried through the first 2 easy fights and then grief the real players in M11

[HammAndCheese]

I often forget that SSS exists so putting more emphasis on it would be nice.