Why This Relic is Better Than Endwalker (And Most Expansions)

[HammAndCheese]

Spamming leveling roulette ad nauseam has really been a wild ride, I want to criticize it but the sheer amount of new players/base jobs I've had in my parties doing these ARR dungeons have been really refreshing and I feel like I'm genuinely helping these people get through the queue faster. I do agree that OC should be giving out more paste, also FT:B should have a paste option too, you'll probably get more people doing attempts if there were more incentive.

For the sake of the argument, internal data might have shown a decline in people running certain roulettes so they added an extra incentive for people who don't normally do those roulettes, because personally after getting omni 100 I stopped doing leveling, tomes are easier to acquire in a hunt train or from other methods.

I would like the Devs to move away from the 1500 tomes model, its fine for the first step but after there needs to be a slight grind (the children yearn for the mines Yoshi-P). For example after you acquire the first weapon the next weapons all require less paste, so the first is 1200 paste but after that it keeps going down as you get more, or you just need a A LOT less for subsequent weapons. That plus an increase to how much drops in OC would've been a healthy option, and not to mention throwing a lifeline to OC because that content is very much lacking in stuff to do, you can't (and shouldn't) expect FATE like content to keep people engaged for 8 to 12 months before it gets any kind of reasonable update.

[Raim]

I think tomes were fine. Its just that the amount it required was way too low.

[HyperiusUltima]

I've seen a lot of complaining about the relic, but instead I think we should be looking back at what the Relic ISN'T and why this has been better than most of the relics.

- NO RNG. There's not a 20% chance you'll get paste. You get it 100% of the time. This is way better than ARR relic grinding.

So, have you gone and done the other relics? Because I feel like if you're trying to compare anything to Endwalker Relic you're literally comparing a rock in the ground to a rock on the surface. The difference between them isn't much, but it's still a rock. If you want No RNG, go stare at Demiatmas and FATE Farming those. It was essentially the same as ARR's Atma farming, which was part of that relic grind except with slightly better rates.

- NO LIGHT FARMING. Arbitrary light percentages are gone. No more grinding the same thing over and over again. Alex 1 isn't required over and over.

Light Farming actually had a larger amount of content to go through that could get you Light compared to this. No more grinding the same thing over and over again? Leveling Roulette would like to argue because 20 Paste is the most efficient you're getting out of it, and even then FATE Farms need an efficient group hopping between locations to even match it proper.

- CHOICE OF EXPERT & LEVELING ROULETTE. Expert might be good the first 1-2 days for you to cap on your tomes while simultaneously working on your relic. Leveling Roulette is optimal for 20 paste.

High-Level? Like, you forget that there's a third option right? That you can do on the daily? Also, this goes counter to your above point that there's no grinding one piece of content. The thing you're grinding is the Leveling Roulette that, even with its various dungeons in there, you're still just dungeon farming. Don't get me started on how boring 15-50 is...

- CHOICE OF SOUTH HORN. Let's face it, South Horn sucks. If we were required to be there, people wouldn't bother. Yes it's nice to have it as an option, but let's let South Horn die out already. It wasn't fun content and Squeenix dropped the ball pretty hard on Forked Tower and this job system. Don't force content that people won't enjoy.

It sucks because not only did the devs flop on it by making it a treadmill, they also should've actually shoved more into South Horn so that the longevity of the content would extend into 7.5. This step should've been a heavily OC-related step because that could incentivize people to go do Forked Tower. It's a disservice to the content to make it the worst option at that for Paste, instead of the best. The job system on the other hand isn't an entire flop, but is a really nice concept that they only executed properly in Forked Tower if you go in there.

- IT'S NOT A TOME GRIND. We ALL complained about Endwalker. It was tasteless, mindless grinding and putting tomes without much thought. Sure you had the freedom to do whatever you wanted, but we didn't have a sense of accomplishment. The relics didn't feel earned as much as it does now.

It was tasteless, mindless grinding and putting tomes without much thought once you did the damn step. We have the same here once those steps are finished. 1500 Tomes for 3 of an item to get a Relic Upgrade - shoving some of EW's stuff into the end of that is pretty rough, but acceptable given how many jobs there are; I'd rather they revert back to what they did in Bozja though because that was definitely one of the best iterations of relic you could ask for.

- SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT. I actually feel like I'm achieving something this time around. I'm playing the game a lot more than I have been and I'm getting my subscription's worth of playing.

Heavily subjective. I think it's more a sense of relief after dealing with Gerolt's Paste Quest that took 1200 pieces. In my opinion it's one of the worst grinds because of how mindless it can become just spamming Leveling Roulette or FATE Farming, and really doesn't underscore much else other than being a grindy step for grind's sake - to make it last until 7.5, essentially.

- OKAY NOT ALL OF THE RELICS LOOK GREAT. I'm thankful I'm a Reaper main.

Again, heavily subjective.

[torpy]

yeah DT relics have absolutely been the best relics the game's ever had. And it's not even close.

[Supersnow845]

I’m fine with the “second and after relic” step being streamlined but it’s way too low.

They should change it so the second and after is either “repeat the initial grind” or 15000 tomestones

Then maybe add cosmic’s “more relics mean each subsequent one is cheaper”

[AlliciaCapulet]

I respectfully disagree with OP. If we’re talking about the best relic design FFXIV has had, Bozja is still the clear benchmark—and nothing since has come close.

The issue was never “RNG vs no RNG” in isolation. The problem has always been bad, uncontrolled RNG, like Atmas in ARR, which everyone hated. Bozja didn’t rely on that. Progression there was structured, predictable, and tied to actual gameplay inside dedicated content. You always knew what you were working toward, and your time investment felt intentional.

Likewise, removing light farming isn’t automatically an improvement if it’s replaced by something even more passive. Doing roulettes or unrelated content to progress a relic isn’t meaningful choice—it’s accidental progression. In Bozja, you progressed your relic by engaging with relic content. That’s the key difference.

Choice is important, but Bozja already handled that better than anything we’ve had since. You could farm relic items outside Bozja if you really wanted to, but doing it inside was faster, more engaging, and clearly the intended path. That’s a healthy compromise. What we have now isn’t choice—it’s avoidance. When the optimal way to progress a relic is to not engage with the relic zone at all, something has gone very wrong.

As for “sense of accomplishment,” that’s exactly why many of us preferred Bozja. Clearing CLL, Dalriada, duels, ranking up, farming fragments—those were milestones. Relics felt earned because effort was tied to the system itself, not to generic tomestone income you would have accumulated anyway.

Endwalker failed because relics became purely tomestone-based. Dawntrail so far is failing for a similar reason: even when an instance exists, relic progression barely lives there. That’s not an evolution—that’s a regression with better PR.

Bozja wasn’t perfect, but it respected a core MMO principle: long-term, optional grind content for players who enjoy it. Removing or flattening that grind doesn’t satisfy everyone—it just erases a playstyle. The better solution has always been to add parallel casual-friendly options, not to gut the systems that grind-oriented players actually enjoy.

If anything, Bozja showed that relic content can be engaging, social, and rewarding without forcing everyone into it. That’s the model that worked—and it’s the one many of us want back.

[Roehann]

I respectfully disagree with OP. If we’re talking about the best relic design FFXIV has had, Bozja is still the clear benchmark—and nothing since has come close.

If anything, Bozja showed that relic content can be engaging, social, and rewarding without forcing everyone into it. That’s the model that worked—and it’s the one many of us want back.

I totally agree with you! SE took a step backwards when they had a model that worked, worked well and was engaging... Not only was Bozja engaging, the story was fleshed out, the grind was worthy and when done the sense of accomplishment was there. Sometimes I wonder what SE is thinking.. They KNOW how to make a game engaging, and grindy and fun all at once... just look at FF11, but with FF14 in the last two expansions it's like they have given up their creative side for a safer bet.

The thing about safe bets is they don't last, in time they fade and are replaced..

[TeresaFortell]

my issue with this relic (i love the relics and how you only have to do the cancer grind once) is it the lack of conjunction with occult cresent. This is very evident with the last step and the crystal paste step.


The reward for fate grinding is not worth it, outside of capping your tomes quicker.


paste rewards should be 10-15 within OC.

They should have made it consistent with the amount of crystal pastes one can get from doing content outside of OC. Because in the current setting, not many are doing OC for the sake of pastes.

[Deejudanne]

feather theme looks awful

[Striker44]

Needing 100 experience to level up and having a 100% chance of 20 experience per battle or a 20% chance of 100 experience per battle is statistically the same thing and old school JRPG’s went hard on the former,

We're a bit old on this one, but just want to point out this is only mathematically true when considering the average experience of large numbers of players. It is NOT AT ALL statistically the same thing for any individual. Having a 100% chance of getting 20 exp per battle gives you a 100% guarantee that you will reach the goal in exactly 5 battles. Having a 20% chance of getting 100 exp per battle does not guarantee that you will reach the goal in exactly 5 battles, nor guarantee that it would take at most 5 battles. There is actually about a 1/3 chance that it will take more than 5 battles using the RNG approach, versus a 0% chance that it will take more than 5 battles using the non-RNG approach.

Old school JRPG's did indeed go hard on the former. They're also called "old-school" for a reason. Look at all the changes MMO's themselves have made over the past 25 years. Flying, LFG queues, map objectives highlighted - the demographics of RPG gamers have shifted sharply away from those who have the time or preference for some of those old-school approaches.