Feedback: Summoner 8.0 Job Direction & Addressing Caster Raise Tax

[Valence]

Well they seemed to have picked the Lunar one from last expansion's Lunar primals, so in 8.0 if they do the same process we'll probably summon cyber bahamut

[Reginald_Cain]

Im convinced Summoners raise tax shouldn't really exist. The raise should stay the same and the job should just be a little more challenging to play.

In stormblood summoner had its res and was the highest dps job in the game because it was actually challenging.

Some jobs like samurai viper and current black mage are so easy but super strong because they're selfish. If summoner wants to deserve a spot there then the extreme simplicity needs to be adressed. I think the regular res should not change because thats not adding challenge thats adding jank and creating even more separation from arcanist. Summoners need 3 more gems for shiva ramuh and leviathan so we have primary elements all covered and more diverse rotations for those gems than free no cast gemshin spam outside ifrits TWO casts.

[Reginald_Cain]

As far as restoring caster balance I don't even think all 4 casters should share a role. Same issue with machinist being a phys ranged. the other two are weak supports and they keep machinist weak to not outshine them despite it BEING A PURE SELFISH DPS. If summoner got to keep its res and easy "rotation" and be competitive in damage then jobs like machinist will be in a far more unforgivable state of weakness. Seriously the dps subroles are so terribly designed right now that im not even sure what they can do at this point

[Reginald_Cain]

Well they seemed to have picked the Lunar one from last expansion's Lunar primals, so in 8.0 if they do the same process we'll probably summon cyber bahamut

PLEASE STOP SQUARE ENIX NO MORE UGLY BAHAMUT REDESIGNS! Give me literally anything else besides the digusting look solar bahamut or a boring lunar phoenix.

[Carighan]

Haha it'd be even more lame if they just keep stapling more and more reskins of just Bahamut on top, not even Phoenix. Techno Bahamut next! >.>

[Anvaire]

I think personally smn should be reworked so you build to demis not from them. Instants should become casted GCD'd with the exception of Garuda and Maybe Phoenix.

Beyond that, add something that needs managing / choice. An easy route would be to add three more Arcanum summons, but retain the ability to only use three. Split them into high damage / low movement and High Movement / Utility and provide the choice of when you use them.
Im not good enough to figure out what this would look like on an ability to ability level.

I also feel like demis and arcanums shouldnt remove carbuncle. There is zero reason for it, but make carbuncle function like DRK's living shadow. It runs through a steady rotation, (and give it glamours beyond carbuncles for flavour) Give summoner ability OGCD's that empower or draw out speific things from that constand pet. Hell even make it so cabuncle acts like old Bahamut demi where it will execute an attack based on when you do.

final change id make is to allow banking of arcanum on a minute cooldown for Garuda, ifrit, Phoenix and Temu Banamut. So you can choose when to use it rather than force it within the window it currently is.

Overall it wouldnt likely change much, but breaking the punishing conveyer is needed and would mke the job a bit more difficult.

SMN could be a bit like blm in that conceptually its rotation isnt hard, but executionally is it.

Currently both concept and execution are easy unless you have high ping.

[Reginald_Cain]

I think personally smn should be reworked so you build to demis not from them. Instants should become casted GCD'd with the exception of Garuda and Maybe Phoenix.

Beyond that, add something that needs managing / choice. An easy route would be to add three more Arcanum summons, but retain the ability to only use three. Split them into high damage / low movement and High Movement / Utility and provide the choice of when you use them.
Im not good enough to figure out what this would look like on an ability to ability level.

I also feel like demis and arcanums shouldnt remove carbuncle. There is zero reason for it, but make carbuncle function like DRK's living shadow. It runs through a steady rotation, (and give it glamours beyond carbuncles for flavour) Give summoner ability OGCD's that empower or draw out speific things from that constand pet. Hell even make it so cabuncle acts like old Bahamut demi where it will execute an attack based on when you do.

final change id make is to allow banking of arcanum on a minute cooldown for Garuda, ifrit, Phoenix and Temu Banamut. So you can choose when to use it rather than force it within the window it currently is.

Overall it wouldnt likely change much, but breaking the punishing conveyer is needed and would mke the job a bit more difficult.

SMN could be a bit like blm in that conceptually its rotation isnt hard, but executionally is it.

Currently both concept and execution are easy unless you have high ping.

Some really cool ideas here and I agree with more arcanum and making the one you chose more nuanced.

However im opposed to reverting summoner to a ramper like in stormblood. While summoner should be harder I dont think it should have a 2 minute opener just to build up 1 demi. The current ability to have a demi during the opener is something many of us begged for.

[Anvaire]

Some really cool ideas here and I agree with more arcanum and making the one you chose more nuanced.

However im opposed to reverting summoner to a ramper like in stormblood. While summoner should be harder I dont think it should have a 2 minute opener just to build up 1 demi. The current ability to have a demi during the opener is something many of us begged for.

Thats fair.

I wouldn't want it that either, i just would like it to build to it rather than have it from the get go.
There are many ways of doing that without it needing to be a 2 minute opener though.

I guess i view it as demis are the apex of the SMN Ability.
But the other method could be a "Grand Summon" above demi. But then you're just adding bloat.
There are loads of ways they can go without entirely throwing out the endwalker rework.
I've enjoyed every differnt SMN design so im pretty open about what i want to see. Though being real id rather not see dots be the main focus of the Job again. That ship was tried multiple times and failed.

[Palladiamors]

I honestly don’t care what final fantasy 12.56 the ultimate round the twist birth by sleep remake says SMN should be I care what 14’s lore says SMN should be

Old SMN summoned things and it justified in lore why it wasn’t a cheap knockoff rydia cosplay from spirit halloween, so therefore to me that’s instantly better than whatever modern SMN is

Oh so much this. There's also the fact that there's precedence for persistent summons in around half of the Final Fantasys that have had summons, why would they matter less? Not that it matters, we had original summoner FROM THE BEGINNING and removing an entire job and two full unique play styles that far into a games life span was absolutely asinine. Not to mention the sheer window lickery of introducing a replacement in LIMITED CAPACITY five years later. Yoshida standing on stage awkwardly expecting people to get excited about another limited job was peak out of touch.

Also note, I activated my free time just to respond to this post. Haven't played the game on a long time. Even had to reinstall it just to log in and ultimately the removal of summoner was one of the major reasons.

[Carighan]

As far as restoring caster balance I don't even think all 4 casters should share a role. Same issue with machinist being a phys ranged. the other two are weak supports and they keep machinist weak to not outshine them despite it BEING A PURE SELFISH DPS. If summoner got to keep its res and easy "rotation" and be competitive in damage then jobs like machinist will be in a far more unforgivable state of weakness. Seriously the dps subroles are so terribly designed right now that im not even sure what they can do at this point

It could be split into 2 "selfish" DPS + 2 "support DPS" maybe.

Many melee jobs would need some rebalancing, but I could see that work out. End up with the majority selfish DPS until some class reworks though. Right now we'd only have Summoner (a bit), Red Mage, Dancer and Bard for the latter spots. So either 3+1, or turn in particular 2-3 melee DPS into more "supporty" loadouts, some with a rezz, others will multiple buffs and/or defensive tools for others.