You might as well add an official DPS log to the game...

[LotteYanson]

The sickness is SQEX sloppy (untested) stat adjustments due to the Christmas delay.
The log checkers are just a symptom.
If SQEX balanced the battles better, they wouldn't have to kick you out.

* Kick needs to be removed/disabled from 'public' PF all together
...
... And the biggest investment is sitting in a boring PF lobby while it fills, only for it to be disbanded six minutes in after the 3rd pull.

You say you're not allowed to kick the (known ahead) problems, but at the same time you say it's frustrating to disband after the third pull because of them.
Decide?


Got kicked? So what - just go to the next one.
People shouldn't allways get all emotional about things like this.

[Terhix]

I highly recommend people watch Dan Olson's Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft (either this talk or his Video Essay by the same title on Folding Ideas channel, I like the talk due to the Q&A at the end).

In broad strokes: this is a social game and high end content is goal-oriented instrumental play, so it's only natural that players will come up with and enforce their own rules and standards. The game itself does not require you to use food when you join a Savage PF, nor does it require you to use pots when you're going for a clear. The other players will however require that of you, and not following these social rules is bad manners. Knowing the mechanics at the correct prog point and how to play your job at some level of competency when joining a PF is really not that different. SE has very limited tools to affect this behavior, and for the most part they shouldn't.

I think it's also notable that the aforementioned Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft essay/talk came out before WoW decided to remove support for combat addons, but at the same time the game is adding a damage meter to the base UI, understanding that this is just one of the fundamental tools a modern MMO should have.

The current approach of Fight Club rules applying to the damage meters I think is broadly unhelpful. The intent of preventing players from being toxic towards people who under-perform is noble, but doing that through obfuscating individual performance is a double edged sword: if a group removes you because of numbers, but is unable to tell you that's why they are doing it, and you can't see any metrics of your own performance yourself, the end result is that you lack the very feedback you need to improve. It's a weird grey zone where you can violate the social norms of the community, and be completely oblivious that this is what you're doing.

XIV should continue its course on having strong ToS against toxic behavior: nobody should hurl insults at you, tell you to uninstall the game or worse, regardless of reason. I do however think that adding an official DPS meter to the game at this point would be a net positive.

[Aidorouge]

I think it's also notable that the aforementioned Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft essay/talk came out before WoW decided to remove support for combat addons, but at the same time the game is adding a damage meter to the base UI, understanding that this is just one of the fundamental tools a modern MMO should have.

Lol, man, that game really has fallen off hard if its deliberately trying to encourage toxicity now.

And to think some people were going to get suckered into playing it over the addition of housing.

[Miradelle]

Lol, man, that game really has fallen off hard if its deliberately trying to encourage toxicity now.

And to think some people were going to get suckered into playing it over the addition of housing.

Yeah, it really sucks, because I am going to be now always anxious about everyone seeing my DPS on their screen, which will naturally lead me to screw up more. WoW was already kind of toxic, but now it's going to be so toxic, because people will finally be able to see everyone's DPS in real time for the first time.

Yeah, I can't believe people would actually play WoW over FFXIV ...

[Terhix]

Lol, man, that game really has fallen off hard if its deliberately trying to encourage toxicity now.

And to think some people were going to get suckered into playing it over the addition of housing.

Between WoW and XIV one game is hemorrhaging players and the other is doing really well atm.

[Aidorouge]

Between WoW and XIV one game is hemorrhaging players and the other is doing really well atm.

WoW's playerbase is the same one that stuck with them all through Shadowlands, helped Diablo Immortal to prosper, and keeps bankrolling Overwatch 2, so I wouldn't consider modern Blizzboys the best judges of quality anyway, lol.

I will admit the idea of housing in WoW was tempting, along with some of the other supposed upcoming changes in the next expansion, and it would have been poetic irony to have quit WoW for FF14 only to quit FF14 to go back to WoW... but built-in DPS meters? Ick, I'd rather just be MMOless if FF14 crashes and burns.

[TeresaFortell]

Yeah, it really sucks, because I am going to be now always anxious about everyone seeing my DPS on their screen, which will naturally lead me to screw up more. WoW was already kind of toxic, but now it's going to be so toxic, because people will finally be able to see everyone's DPS in real time for the first time.

Yeah, I can't believe people would actually play WoW over FFXIV ...

Well, wow came out early, and if you were playing wow you would be sticking to it rather than switching. I played both, but personally, I like the crafting and gathering system in ffxiv so I played it over wow over the years. In the case of wow, the DPS numbers have always been there; it is just something you can't see without getting a third-party tool, yet most people just have it by default. Granted, this created a lot of toxicity, and Blizz tried to push the social contract, which was a way to reduce toxicity in wow. However, the rules are hardly ever enforced, rendering the social contract ineffective against the toxicity that already exists in the game.

[Xieldras]

Between WoW and XIV one game is hemorrhaging players and the other is doing really well atm.

One game ditched its casual players for a year and the other is trying to appeal to them (while already having a dedicated playerbase that stuck throughout the years). One is investing money back into the game while the other is shoveling it towards other ventures.
It's really not hard science here...

[Terhix]

(...) but built-in DPS meters? Ick, I'd rather just be MMOless if FF14 crashes and burns.

There exists no future in which raiding scene in XIV does not use dps meters, having one built-in into the game would only bring information parity to all players. Again, I strongly recommend watching that Dan Olson's talk (which given the timeline of responses you haven't). Requiring that other people use food, pots, and perform somewhat competently at their job is itself not toxic, but refusing to adhere to those social norms and still expecting to do high end content is. There is a level of pettiness at which this becomes unhealthy (which Olson also covers), to say nothing of language that players can sometimes employ, but it's much easier for a company to control and police the language people use in game, than it is to control or police social norms they develop.

[theunhappypotato]

There exists no future in which raiding scene in XIV does not use dps meters, having one built-in into the game would only bring information parity to all players. Again, I strongly recommend watching that Dan Olson's talk (which given the timeline of responses you haven't). Requiring that other people use food, pots, and perform somewhat competently at their job is itself not toxic, but refusing to adhere to those social norms and still expecting to do high end content is. There is a level of pettiness at which this becomes unhealthy (which Olson also covers), to say nothing of language that players can sometimes employ, but it's much easier for a company to control and police the language people use in game, than it is to control or police social norms they develop.

your efford is commendable but stop wasting yout time with Aido, they're either an elaborate troll or truly have such a problem with anything endgame related in this game that i dont think any form of video essay or just good arguments can make them maybe think they're wrong, and honestly i'm here for it its hilarious to read what they say sometimes