FF14 is a disappointment

[Kaurhz]

so a realm reborn werent them learning from their mistakes?

At that point they weren't really learning from their mistakes as much as what they were pruning relics of 1.0

More often than not they end up repeating the same mistakes, or they end up learning from the mistake just to completely backpedal, e.g., going from BA -> CLL/Dalriada -> Forked Tower... Where Forked Tower was more of a regression.

[Mikey_R]

That's exactly what I said. I compared both the state of pve balance back then and today, and I do think that while everything can clear as back then, jobs/roles are imbalanced in a similar manner, and that no, I don't believe the game is more balanced than it used to be.

No it isn't, and let me explain.

In this hypothetical situation, you have a boss that enrages after 61 seconds, Job A can kill it in 60 seconds, Job B can kill it in 30 seconds.

In this scenario, everything can clear the fight. That was the claim you made, however, it is not balanced as Job B is doing twice the damage of Job A, which is the claim you responded to.

if we were to bring this to more realistic numbers, in HW, Warrior was doing (over) 20% more damage than Paladin, this is the data from the last tier of Alexander. If we use Paladin as the baseline, of 60 seconds, then Warrior was killing things in 50 seconds. Current tank balance has the highest DPS tank killing this in 58.8 seconds. That, along with various other changes, means that tanks today are better balanced than they were back in HW.

Going to the P8S scenario, we know the fight was tested a ton by the dev team, and so the bar for enrage was higher. Going back to the analogy, if Job A can kill the boss in 60 seconds, and Job B can kill it in 58, they are fairly well balanced. The problem is that the enrage was set to 59 seconds. So, despite being balanced between each other, the point of failure happened to fall within the balancing gap, which is why some were struggling and others were not.

Hopefully that clears up the difference between the jobs being balanced (the original claim) and jobs being able to clear a fight (your claim) and why you cannot conflate the 2.

[Valence]

No it isn't, and let me explain.

In this hypothetical situation, you have a boss that enrages after 61 seconds, Job A can kill it in 60 seconds, Job B can kill it in 30 seconds.

In this scenario, everything can clear the fight. That was the claim you made, however, it is not balanced as Job B is doing twice the damage of Job A, which is the claim you responded to.

if we were to bring this to more realistic numbers, in HW, Warrior was doing (over) 20% more damage than Paladin, this is the data from the last tier of Alexander. If we use Paladin as the baseline, of 60 seconds, then Warrior was killing things in 50 seconds. Current tank balance has the highest DPS tank killing this in 58.8 seconds. That, along with various other changes, means that tanks today are better balanced than they were back in HW.

Going to the P8S scenario, we know the fight was tested a ton by the dev team, and so the bar for enrage was higher. Going back to the analogy, if Job A can kill the boss in 60 seconds, and Job B can kill it in 58, they are fairly well balanced. The problem is that the enrage was set to 59 seconds. So, despite being balanced between each other, the point of failure happened to fall within the balancing gap, which is why some were struggling and others were not.

Hopefully that clears up the difference between the jobs being balanced (the original claim) and jobs being able to clear a fight (your claim) and why you cannot conflate the 2.

I'm sorry but that's not what I wrote. Read it up again. You're trying to enforce whatever fantasy you read out of it when in reality I've said since the beginning that "can clear everything" =/= "balanced". My claim has never been that every job is able to clear a fight. You're literally obsessed with a single sentence I wrote without even reading it in the whole argument. You're trying to stir up a storm in a teapot for whatever reason.

P8S had two tanks doing way less than the two others (PLD/WAR). It has nothing to do with the dev team overshooting the enrage. All tanks could still clear it, albeit some a lot harder than others, and that made it not balanced by definition. This is again one of the many examples I've brought over to say that no, the game isn't balanced even today.

[Miguel85NYC]

Im so sick of these stat squish.

[Veritas-Ancora]

I want more stat squish.
Level squish.
Long-ass story squish.

Cut the fat. This game has a lot of it.