Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Sairaag]

Moon Keepers, for example, have hardly any representation in the game. Most Miqo npcs in the story are Seekers, and there's been no exploration of Keeper culture or settlements (Coeurlclaws are an anomaly if you know their lore so I wouldn't count them). If fangs were accessible to the more popular Seekers, it'd be taking away pretty much the one benefit we have: Our unique features. And there'd be less reason to pick less popular clans.

This worries me, yeah. I've seen a lot of people say that they feel strongly enough about the fangs to play Keeper, but would switch in a heartbeat if they became available to Seekers. I wonder what would happen. Would working on these options cause the devs to suddenly remember Keepers again and do something with them, or would it be the final death knell "Oh well, almost everybody's playing Seeker now anyway /shrug"?

I personally think Seekers should be allowed to have fangs because offspring of mixed heritage will exist in a world like this one. However, mixed traits are often milder compared to those of their parents so I believe that Keepers should be able to choose the size and shape of their fangs as a result but not Seekers, who would have a single type of fang (essentially what exists now for Keepers) if that option was chosen. On another note, the fact that miqo'te children have fangs but only the Seeker ones lose it as they age always felt like a weird trait to me, as if all miqo'te had fangs initially and Keepers were designed second and given the trait after.

Additionally, I would expand the physical traits of both clans. I don't know what specific things could be given to Seekers but I do know that Keepers at least should get their intended fluffier ears and tails options. We do have a fluffy tail choice but the ears are essentially the same for everyone, with some slight changes based on haircut. Decoupling ear shape and size from haircuts and making them standalone options (with Keepers having specific ones for them as stated) would be a good addition to the race as a whole, in my opinion.

This would be an ideal solution to me if the devs do ever share the fangs. We do have quite a few NPCs with mooncat features but suncat names or the other way around - could be an oversight, but could very easily be mixed heritage. I wouldn't mind fangs being made available this way if Keepers stayed distinct enough to still be an attractive choice. Maybe more cat-like fang choices like longer and narrower with added lower fangs. And the different ear and tail options as well. I mean, I read that only Keepers could have a white-tipped tail back in 1.x, and even that was shared later, so we could really use something unique back too.

Edit: Hang on, the Seeker lion tails were also shared. Sorry about neglecting that, I tend to get locked into my own perspective. Both Miqo'te types could use some more options mentioned in lore.

[Tahli]

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In Norvrandt at least, there are some Keepers (at least in appearance, but probably not culture), but they're very rare and I'm not sure I saw any outside of the Crystarium/its outposts. I chalked it up to the light physically affecting most of them. I could ramble on more about story thoughts because I love Keepers of the Moon, but I don't want to get too off topic haha.


I still can't really get behind the idea of Seekers getting fangs, just because in the history of the game fangs have been the most iconic trait of Keepers, comparable to Seekers' slit pupils. Like you said, not all Keepers are blue. And round, dilated pupils aren't striking enough on their own when they can be compared to large Hyur-like eyes.

I do like the suggestions to give each clan more unique options to match their full physical descriptions though, if they could get those things to work. Though is there a lorebook or something that says Keepers have fluffier ears and tails? All I know is that in character creation, it says this for Seekers:

They are perhaps best known for their striking eyes- the result of their vertically aligned pupils and faintly colored irises. It is also not uncommon for their eyes to be disparately colored from birth, a trait considered auspicious among their kind.

While Keepers say this:

They are distinguishable from their diurnal cousins by their darker fur, larger ears, rounder eyes, more pronounced canines, and longer, skinnier tails. The ritual application of war paint to the face is still regularly practiced, as it is believed the vivid colors grant lunar powers.

Given all that, I think there actually already is the option to make mixed-heritage Miqo. Both clans can have dark skin or hair, both can have peach or brown-toned skin, both can have heterochromia, both can have either a sort of fluffy tail, a long sleek tail, a color-tipped tail or a lion tail.

For some reason, female Keepers don't have a facial tattoo option while female Seekers do. They instead get ear clasps. Male Miqo of either clan can have face tattoos. (This is all in addition to their baked-in face markings). Miqo'te ears are already a little long and strangely shaped for cats, maybe Seekers could get a shorter, more classic catlike ear shape? And Keepers could get bigger, more foxlike ears?

Personally I headcanon some Keepers as leaning more fox or wolflike than feline in features. It kind of works with the round eyes, fangs, and moon theming.

[Sairaag]

Though is there a lorebook or something that says Keepers have fluffier ears and tails?

Strange, I know I read that bit about fluffier tails and ears too somewhere. Probably a wiki because I was reading them for Keeper lore to help with name creation and all that. It's been a few years and I can't find it now, so maybe it was edited out at some point?

[KihyiFelhede]

A limited slider system for the existing preset colors is an easy implementation that allows for more customization while also avoiding garish and eye-straining colors. Lip and facepaint could especially benefit from this as their palette is more limited. I think this could also be really helpful for skin tones as a frequent complaint is ashiness, which while it is a stylistic choice in some areas can also be limiting and part of an unfortunate pattern of darker skin tones lacking depth in gaming. (In my personal opinion many of the cool-toned skin colors suffer from this.)

Eyebrow weight could in theory be made a slider, but I believe that would require a significant overhaul to the current system, so a toggle seems more reasonable to expect. Tattoos are basically a form of race/clan locked facepaint as is and allow layering with the universal facepaint, so I really see no reason to not let people go crazy with it, or at least choose from a couple. I think m!Viera are the only race that can have freckles as well as facepaint currently. Everyone else is locked to using the freckle facepaint, let them layer! My more selfish ask is colored eyelash toggles for all races, but I doubt we'll see that one lol.

I would also like to see some more customization in animations. I dislike the bandaid solution of making a neutral animation, having the more cute/cool styles is something I really like. I'd just prefer to get an option when there's a clear disparity (I think the DRK idle pose horse has been beaten into a fine powder at this point). Being locked into the cuter/daintier animations because you play as a woman can make it harder to try and make a tomboy, butch, bifauxnen etc type character and vice versa for making a male character a femme, cutesy etc type.

[Doopliss]

Strange, I know I read that bit about fluffier tails and ears too somewhere. Probably a wiki because I was reading them for Keeper lore to help with name creation and all that. It's been a few years and I can't find it now, so maybe it was edited out at some point?

This is actually 1.0 lore that is a little more difficult to find now. I believe if you try to look at videos that linger on the race choice descriptions in the 1.0 character creation you can see these little details. However from what I recall it wasn't that they had fluffier tails--it was that Keepers tend to have longer tails (and ears! Though for some reason this was never once represented on their actual character models) and Seekers tend to have shorter ones. I could be wrong though, since this is all a very distant memory now. Very old 1.0 FAQs are also how I found out that Miqo'te face markings are birthmarks that always start very light in their youth and can grow darker with age.

[Tahli]

This is actually 1.0 lore that is a little more difficult to find now. I believe if you try to look at videos that linger on the race choice descriptions in the 1.0 character creation you can see these little details. However from what I recall it wasn't that they had fluffier tails--it was that Keepers tend to have longer tails (and ears! Though for some reason this was never once represented on their actual character models) and Seekers tend to have shorter ones. I could be wrong though, since this is all a very distant memory now. Very old 1.0 FAQs are also how I found out that Miqo'te face markings are birthmarks that always start very light in their youth and can grow darker with age.

I looked up a video from 1.0, it doesn't look like those physical descriptions have changed at all. I did include in my quotes from current CC that it does say "larger ears and longer, skinnier tails". Would be really neat if those traits could be shown ingame though!

[Doopliss]

I looked up a video from 1.0, it doesn't look like those physical descriptions have changed at all. I did include in my quotes from current CC that it does say "larger ears and longer, skinnier tails". Would be really neat if those traits could be shown ingame though!

Ohh that's my bad. I'll admit I completely forgot the post I was replying to was already a reply to another post. u__u

[Sairaag]

Oh, it was another memory of 1.0! Thank you, this is interesting stuff, especially the birthmark thing.

[RedLolly]

This is actually 1.0 lore that is a little more difficult to find now. I believe if you try to look at videos that linger on the race choice descriptions in the 1.0 character creation you can see these little details. However from what I recall it wasn't that they had fluffier tails--it was that Keepers tend to have longer tails (and ears! Though for some reason this was never once represented on their actual character models) and Seekers tend to have shorter ones. I could be wrong though, since this is all a very distant memory now. Very old 1.0 FAQs are also how I found out that Miqo'te face markings are birthmarks that always start very light in their youth and can grow darker with age.

I broke out my Encyclopedia and the two big details of note; the only factoid listed here and in the book was Keepers having longer tails (which is a lie since most NPCs use maxed out tails) and the implication that Keepers pretty much ONLY exist in the Shroud while Seekers are everywhere.

If Keepers are an Eorzea only thing, that *sort of* explains why the only other area we see Keeper NPCs in the wild is in Norvrandt, which is the same region as it was copied on the First. It creates an interesting theory in that Keepers may actually be a weird evolutionary offshoot that solely developed in Eorzea's environment.

The other traits that differentiate them actually make Keepers just flatly physically frailer than Seekers, by having just generally lower stamina and physical strength ("made up for with strong wills"). Maybe the Seekers are on to something with the whole Nuhn and his harem system for making children with good genes?

[Metool42]

They keep shifting valid bug reports with visible proof of it being a bug into working as intended now. I think they're done caring about users.