We need a new dungeon design team

[Gaddes]

I mainly wish they'd make the trash pulls better, is the best we can do still auto attacking mobs with occasional circle or cone AoEs? Add some interrupts, or mini tankbusters, or mobs that don't follow normal aggro rules. Give us something, at least.

That sort of reminds me, I miss the old Steps of Faith duty where different players could utilize stuff in the environment to do damage to the various dragons. Stuff like that worked into the design is more interesting to me than just AOE rotation over and over.

[s32ialx]

I keep hearing people talk about 'trash resetting on bosses' but I have trained trash to bosses where the boss is not gate kept behind a locked section straight into the boss fight so that it was a little more challenging, cause now it's not just a boss fight but there is some trash to also fight... are people getting to the boss and just suiciding to reset the trash and then using the teleport to get back, that seems so inefficient?

[Aidorouge]

I keep hearing people talk about 'trash resetting on bosses' but I have trained trash to bosses where the boss is not gate kept behind a locked section straight into the boss fight so that it was a little more challenging, cause now it's not just a boss fight but there is some trash to also fight... are people getting to the boss and just suiciding to reset the trash and then using the teleport to get back, that seems so inefficient?

I think they may be referring to old Cutter's Cry, where you could effectively skip 1/3 of the dungeon by jumping into the sand geysers fast enough.

Funny enough, the "new" dungeon design prevents that, but people treat it as some great offense. How dare Square-Enix make them play the dungeon as intended, lol.

[Valence]

I keep hearing people talk about 'trash resetting on bosses' but I have trained trash to bosses where the boss is not gate kept behind a locked section straight into the boss fight so that it was a little more challenging, cause now it's not just a boss fight but there is some trash to also fight... are people getting to the boss and just suiciding to reset the trash and then using the teleport to get back, that seems so inefficient?

Yes that's what they do now that they added the teleport access to the boss as soon as you reach it. It's super fast, you sprint and pull everything, let the tank die in the boss room, they raise and teleport to the party starting the boss fight alone, takes barely 10s for the tank to do so.

10s vs fighting all the trash? Yeah, it's fast alright.

[Minarisweet]

The design is that way because of how we the playerbase ran them.

Design dungeons with lots of side paths or multiple ways to reach the next point? We ignored the side paths, found which way was the quickest, and only ran that way.

Don't put the walls every 2 trash packs? We pulled all the way to the boss, reset the trash, and effectively skipped everything except the bosses. Then we doubled down and harassed people who weren't on board with that and actually wanted to play through the dungeon and see everything.

Note - when I say "we", I don't mean you and me personally. I mean us as the FFXIV playerbase in general. Point being - the design is what it is because of how we the community treated it. As it stands now, the current playerbase would likewise need to prove to the developers that we as a group actually want something different. And no, the minuscule few of us that post on a forum known for immaturity and a deluge of negativity isn't going to do that.

Really dislike the way people keep blaming the playerbase for the dev's lack of imagination on how to come up with new innovative decisions, arent they paid to figure this kind of thing out?

[Kaurhz]

I don't know if a new dungeon design team would actually change anything, since it seems to be a strategic direction more than what it is a designer direction. e.g., you can be the best dungeon designer humanly possible... But if the strategic direction is:
Must take 15-24 minutes for a typical group, depending on gear.
Must have 3 bosses, each with trash packs between.
Must have equal difficult to past dungeons.

Then you are already only giving a massive limitation on design and creativity anyway.

Like the underlying issues that people have with dungeons, are far more encompassing across the game direction itself.

[Brandr]

just delete the dungeon category entirely at that point lol. Just title the category as boss rushes

Funnily enough, that's basically what I do! Lol
9 years playing this game, I haven't ran dungeons for almost 7 years.
I do them exactly once for the MSQ, maybe to get glamour.

Why? They're boring.

When I played another MMORPG, I used to run dungeons all the time, but here I don't enjoy it.

[Renaclock]

best they can do is replace some trash packs with bosses so they can have 4boss dungeons sometimes but personally that won't change much.
And making boss should take much more time and effort so prob not worth it.
I can't think of anything to make dungeons different without making it worse for some ppl.
Cuz you don't want a dungeon that is harder than others or ppl will hate getting it on roulette, can't make it take longer as well.
Adding puzzles and stuff like ARR dungeons is also not for everyone and I can see my self getting annoyed after third time of doing it.
And if they make a dungeon so different then others well might as well just release it as different content.
Main way ppl queue into dungeons is roulette so every dungeon needs to be somewhat similar and it has to be the easiest content in the game cuz they are part of MSQ.
I don't think it will worth putting that much effort into dungeons beyond aesthetic tbh.

[Renaclock]

Funnily enough, that's basically what I do! Lol
9 years playing this game, I haven't ran dungeons for almost 7 years.
I do them exactly once for the MSQ, maybe to get glamour.

Why? They're boring.

When I played another MMORPG, I used to run dungeons all the time, but here I don't enjoy it.

don't know what you play but isn't other part of the game the reason for that?
Most content similar to xiv's dungeon tend to be much more basic and uninspiring like having only one boss or bosses having barely any mechanics.
You also tend to just steamroll everything with your meta builds that oneshot everything
or other players doing that for you.
The fun part for most of mmos dungeons are loots which xiv doesn't really have.

[Kaliesto]

Wasn't it said these developers are put on a schedule of sorts that keeps the standards as they are?

It feels like any deviation from it is considered bad for them least in my observation. I just don't think they're risk takers unlike other divisions of other games. I'm sure everyone has great ideas to stop the repeating process, but it feels like Criterion Dungeon was their answer, but those take longer to come out and its typically side story.

There is also the problem they've done it this way in so long that steering the ship at this point might not be worth it for them.

I thought I saw a article somewhere recently suggesting a lot of MMO Devs know that their games are too easy and boring, and its by design to keep their playerbase so they're not losing money.