HOUSING NEEDS TO CHANGE

[Solowing]

the solution would be to completely redesign and overhaul the system but of course you don't want that by your own admittance because you want things to remain stagnant and infuriating for the rest of us who don't like this current system. an if they wanted to be really "fair" then all plots would need to be the same size and all plots would need to cost the same baseline price but we can't have that in your world no god no that would ruin housing's "appeal" and "exclusivity" in your own words. truth is you dont want a solution and you don't want fairness we've figured you out now Roll, so that begs the question to me are you a house hoarder? a RMT guy? bot farmer? cause you seem to get very upset over the thought of your plots getting taken down a peg or for everyone else having their own homestead

oh fyi the housing issues have now spread like wildfire to the General Forums and guess what? they are clamouring for changes and instance based housing LMAO what do you have to say that now? i guess its not just this little corner anymore now is it? better buckle up Sweetie its now only a matter of time before a developer see our message an then brings to our loving producer Yoshida-san

"My idea creates its own set of problems? What the solution? Double down on my own idea"

So suddenly it becomes acceptable to ignore a different perspective, while you B&M about S.E doing the same to you lol.

Pot meet kettle.

[ShadowyZero]

No one here is arguing against instanced housing. What’s being said, repeatedly, is that every implementation has trade-offs, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

Instanced housing introduces its own fairness issues (timers, size parity, pricing, social visibility). Wards already have fairness issues. Pointing that out is not resistance to change, it’s acknowledging reality.

“Fair” does not mean “everything identical.” Equal price, equal size, equal plots would remove choice, not create it. Some players want small houses. Some want mediums. Some value location or community spaces. That nuance matters.

which is why I’m focused on trade-offs rather than absolutes.

but you do need to acknowledge that there have been people against instance based housing you can't just sweep that under the rug an pretend it didn't happen because it did that would be making light of the actions of one side while favoring another.

and here is the thing we don't need trade offs at all like lets both be real here this is videogame not real life we shouldn't apply real life standards too digital properties
videogames are designed with the concept of fun and entertainment in mind they keep our minds occupied an happy. i am not completely oblivious that there are those like yourself that like the neighborhood feel an communal aspect its why i've never advocated for them to be taken away but rather to be changed up differently and handled differently or for there to just be a separate thing for others who just want to own an reside in a house plot of their own.

you see both parties can get what they want without needing to sacrifice anything or give up anything if you think about this more logically we're the paying customers not the other way around after all, we have the power to bargain with the developers.
and then its on the developers to decide if they can spare the resources an time to test things, an plan them out, to decide if the changes or additions can work without bugs or crashes occurring.

when you bring up stuff like there needs to be a Trade-off thats pivoting into a US vs THEM type of narrative an as you said thats not helpful for the discussion an it just leads to further conflicting views.

We can have both have a Fully instanced housing plot for individuals i.e. single instanced zone, and we can keep and maintain shared instances i.e Neighborhoods side by side without the two needing to intersect or overstep eachother. and as i mentioned previously if alot of people switch over to a private instanced that will free up lots of neighborhood homes so those who want to live in the neighborhood home can an if the developers see this then they'll realize there's not really a need for the demolitions timers anymore people will cycle in or out of housing themselves.

but to address your point of fairness, what you're trying to say is you wouldn't like it if players got to choose their plot size right off the bat while the ward users don't have that luxury so what that does then is put as back to again to what i previously said that for it to be more fair then across the whole entire board is a complete redesign an overhaul where all plots are either the same size and same price. the only other alternative to that is to make the land mass itself all one giant size to accommodate every size of plot: Cottage(S) House(M) and Mansion(L)
so this is what i am getting at here is that this problem can not fix itself without drastic change needing to occur do you agree or disagree on on that?

[ShadowyZero]

Bro said, my idea creates its own set of problems? What the solution? Double down on my own idea, do it anyway... Also *insert personal attack*

Funny how you're demanding S.E fix your plight, but you are completely indifferent to anyone elses... You're high off your own farts.

aww did i hit a nail on the head? is that why you replied? or do you just like talking to me here endlessly :P trying to derail the thread which Nyastra is trying now to put back on track? is that what it is? someone comes in with civility to actually counter argue while also understanding the frustrations an anger of the opposing side but you can't tolerate that cause it ruins your little grift show?

[Nyastra]

and here is the thing we don't need trade offs at all like lets both be real here this is videogame not real life we shouldn't apply real life standards too digital properties
videogames are designed with the concept of fun and entertainment in mind they keep our minds occupied an happy. i am not completely oblivious that there are those like yourself that like the neighborhood feel an communal aspect its why i've never advocated for them to be taken away but rather to be changed up differently and handled differently or for there to just be a separate thing for others who just want to own an reside in a house plot of their own.

What I’m pushing back on is the idea that instancing automatically removes all conflict or fairness concerns. History shows it doesn’t.

Saying “this is a game, so there don’t need to be trade-offs” ignores the reality of persistent, shared online systems. Housing in FFXIV isn’t a single-player feature, it’s visible, social, finite by design, and for many players, a primary space of escape, creativity, or community. Those qualities inherently introduce constraints and responsibilities, regardless of intent.

I agree that both ward and instanced housing could coexist. Where we differ is that I don’t think this happens without new friction points: size choice, pricing parity, demo rules, social visibility, and perceived value between systems. Those aren’t moral objections, they’re implementation questions that must be answered.

A complete overhaul may be one option, but it’s not the only one, nor is it a guaranteed fix. Square Enix has consistently chosen incremental changes precisely because drastic resets would invalidate years of player investment and community structures, especially on RP-heavy worlds.

So no, I don’t think this “fixes itself” cleanly through drastic change alone. I think it requires acknowledging that any solution will help some players and frustrate others. That doesn’t mean change shouldn’t happen. It means pretending there’s a zero-cost, zero-conflict solution isn’t realistic.

so this is what i am getting at here is that this problem can not fix itself without drastic change needing to occur do you agree or disagree on on that?

I’ve already answered this. I don’t agree with the premise that the only viable path forward is a drastic overhaul. I’m explicitly arguing for acknowledging trade-offs and incremental solutions. Whatever SE decides those solutions should be. Framing this as a binary agree/disagree question misrepresents my position.

[Solowing]

aww did i hit a nail on the head? is that why you replied? or do you just like talking to me here endlessly :P trying to derail the thread which Nyastra is trying now to put back on track? is that what it is? someone comes in with civility to actually counter argue while also understanding the frustrations an anger of the opposing side but you can't tolerate that cause it ruins your little grift show?

Oh no no I'm enjoying this. You are fine with someone who voices my exact sentiment. But you're trying to stay on their good side. Im watching your inconsistent treatment of the same thoughts, from 2 different people.

So please continue, you're running to insult me, while dismissing my perspective. But your running to Nyastra, while avoiding challenging Nyastra's perspective, which is also my perspective as well lol

You keep trying to play the field through language (Us vs them) (Name Calling) (demonetization) and tailored replies.

I realized that several weeks ago. You don't wanna make too many enemies, you are picking and choosing your battles. Even if they don't echo your sentiment. You'll make 1 attempt to change their mind, and if that doesn't work. Either youll start name calling, or avoid addressing them any farther to not turn them against you. Me however? Im unyielding. You aren't going to butter me up and buddy buddy me into changing my perspective.

[ShadowyZero]

Saying “this is a game, so there don’t need to be trade-offs” ignores the reality of persistent, shared online systems. Housing in FFXIV isn’t a single-player feature, it’s visible, social, finite by design, and for many players, a primary space of escape, creativity, or community. Those qualities inherently introduce constraints and responsibilities, regardless of intent.

but you do acknowledge that it still would solve some issues though right? even if its not a permanent one its is still considered one. and i have to mention that ffxiv prides itself on being a game for "everyone" its not just a game thats chasing the MMO market but they also try to bring in other demographs too an why wouldnt they? that helps their capita grow by appealing to broader audiences some may not like that sure but having more players playing the game is a positive regardless if they choose to interact socially or not remember that not all people are not the same some have real life problems that make it difficult to try an talk to others should we shun them for that? i don't think so we should just welcome them an let them learn to be more comfortable they'll take that as a sign they can be themselves an be more talkative an join strangers more often if they are shown continuous kindness and fairness.

I agree that both ward and instanced housing could coexist. Where we differ is that I don’t think this happens without new friction points: size choice, pricing parity, demo rules, social visibility, and perceived value between systems. Those aren’t moral objections, they’re implementation questions that must be answered.
A complete overhaul may be one option, but it’s not the only one, nor is it a guaranteed fix. Square Enix has consistently chosen incremental changes precisely because drastic resets would invalidate years of player investment and community structures, especially on RP-heavy worlds.

we know that given SE's track record that may be the case that they only do the bare minimal to bring the systems at a cross roads an that may inventively lead to some disgruntled players here and there.
i dont think anything would be invalidated at all rebuilding doesn't mean something was stripped away it just means you can try new ideas from a fresh start an share those ideas with your community to be proud once more that you made something unique or special

[ShadowyZero]

So no, I don’t think this “fixes itself” cleanly through drastic change alone. I think it requires acknowledging that any solution will help some players and frustrate others. That doesn’t mean change shouldn’t happen. It means pretending there’s a zero-cost, zero-conflict solution isn’t realistic.

this kinda sounds a little fatalistic sorry but i will disagree with you on this particular point, things change because people push for changes they are pessimistic, they are unrealistic, unhinged, crazy, or visionary people label them names or downplay their conspiracies or theories but some do listen to them an do follow not far behind. if we want to talk realistic then yes change doesn't happen over night it takes months or even years of planning but when it does land it reaches those who supported it. to those that didn't support yes they may be bitter about it for a while but they do come around and overtime accept it and move on with their lives (at least most do.) an better still there are those who will not be affected by the change at all an will just be happy that someone else has found a reason to be happy.
and thats why i say that both side can be happy for eachother that everyone has a house whatever shape of form that takes that only the introduction of new housing or a drastic overhaul to the current would bring about.
you may disagree still on that but you've been respectful toward the points of those frustrated by limitations or inconveniences that SE has yet to address so i will extend that kindness still to you.
we may not reach a middle but i can respect that you're at least coming from a more civil point of view on this an not trying to dunk or trash on anyone's wishes or be disingenuous or discourteous about the problems people do have. so thank you for that.

[Nyastra]

but you do acknowledge that it still would solve some issues though right? even if its not a permanent one its is still considered one. and i have to mention that ffxiv prides itself on being a game for "everyone" its not just a game thats chasing the MMO market but they also try to bring in other demographs too an why wouldnt they?

As I've said before: I’m not arguing against instanced housing — I’ve said from the start that it could help with some issues. What I am saying is that instanced housing, wards, or a combination all have trade-offs: plot size, pricing, demo timers, social visibility, and perceived value. Those trade-offs don’t disappear just because we want them to, and ignoring them doesn’t make the system magically fair. My point isn’t “no change,” it’s that we have to acknowledge reality when proposing solutions.

we know that given SE's track record that may be the case that they only do the bare minimal to bring the systems at a cross roads an that may inventively lead to some disgruntled players here and there.
i dont think anything would be invalidated at all rebuilding doesn't mean something was stripped away it just means you can try new ideas from a fresh start an share those ideas with your community to be proud once more that you made something unique or special

Rebuilding from scratch would by definition invalidate existing player investments, plots, furnishings, and neighbourhood structures. That’s exactly why SE opts for incremental adjustments: it preserves progress while improving the system. Fresh starts sound nice in theory, but the consequences are real and affect hundreds of thousands of players.

Saying “it’s just a game, so trade-offs don’t matter” ignores that FFXIV’s housing is persistent, social, and finite and that many systems in the game are purposely designed around fairness, so constraints are built in whether we like it or not.

[ShadowyZero]

Oh no no I'm enjoying this. You are fine with someone who voices my exact sentiment. But you're trying to stay on their good side. Im watching your inconsistent treatment of the same thoughts, from 2 different people.

jealous eh? didn't think you were the type sweetums~

I realized that several weeks ago. You don't wanna make too many enemies, you are picking and choosing your battles. Even if they don't echo your sentiment. You'll make 1 attempt to change their mind, and if that doesn't work. Either youll start name calling, or avoid addressing them any farther to not turn them against you. Me however? Im unyielding. You aren't going to butter me up and buddy buddy me into changing my perspective.

lol well you're going to pleasantly surprised then aren't you? nah who i'm kidding nothing surprises you at this point. we'll just be keeping at this back and fourth for awhile yet cause your bored just like i am at least we have that in common lmao!!!

[Solowing]

i can respect that you're at least coming from a more civil point of view on this an not trying to dunk or trash on anyone's wishes or be disingenuous or discourteous about the problems people do have. so thank you for that.

Solo Wings/Roll Ryuko's biggest fear: the developers will listen to the screaming majority and abandon further development into the crappy ward hostage holding griefing system.

You sir are a hypocrite. LOL

But I guess its ok if you're a hypocrite for the "right" reasons...