HOUSING NEEDS TO CHANGE

[Nyastra]

Solo Wings/Roll Ryuko's biggest fear: the developers will listen to the screaming majority and abandon further development into the crappy ward hostage holding griefing system.

Let’s keep this about the system, not about dunking on other posters.

I don’t think either side is arguing in bad faith. There are valid pros and cons to wards and instanced housing, and pretending one side is just “griefing” or “fear-mongering” doesn’t actually move the discussion forward.

My concern with a mixed system isn’t the idea itself, but the implementation. We already know from past features and incidents (Island Sanctuary included) that uneven rules, timers, or limitations would immediately turn into another “fairness” argument, just a different flavour of the same problem.

I personally prefer wards because I value the shared space, random visits, and sense of place they create. Others value guaranteed access more. Both positions are reasonable.

This debate has been going in circles for ages because no solution makes everyone happy. Turning it into personal attacks just guarantees that continues.

[ShadowyZero]

I don’t think either side is arguing in bad faith. There are valid pros and cons to wards and instanced housing, and pretending one side is just “griefing” or “fear-mongering” doesn’t actually move the discussion forward.

that uneven rules, timers, or limitations would immediately turn into another “fairness” argument, just a different flavour of the same problem.

I personally prefer wards because I value the shared space, random visits, and sense of place they create. Others value guaranteed access more. Both positions are reasonable.

This debate has been going in circles for ages because no solution makes everyone happy. Turning it into personal attacks just guarantees that continues.

oh trust me i'd rather have a sensible debate with you cause you seem alright and not dismissive or taking things personal out of fear or spite.
people have a right to be angry or upset though about this system and thats why they come to these forums to air their grievances and ask for an update/change like you said doesn't mean anyone person is right or wrong but this problem was created by the developers themselves and they need to make some adjustments or changes to meet people in the middle and they have not been doing that which is why people are so heated about it and its why we got things like demolition timers and the lotto system cause alot of people not minority a vast number of people came in and made it a big deal.
and thats what my point is people can make a change happen by continuing to use their voices but unfortunately some hate that as you see here on these forums and probably would if you went too reddit too or other spaces but they can't stop change or progress no matter how much they try.
i'm willing to meet the sensible like you in the middle to find a good compromise and to me what that would be is a seperated housing for others who want to have control over when they play and take breaks, for those who want full control over their own instance and never have to look at an eyesore or bot farmer empty plot with locked doors, or to be harassed by people they would rather not see.

if you're okay with just the aesthetic of having a neighborhood then thats okay don't blame you for that if thats more you flavor of concept then by all means don't let me or anyone stop ya from keeping enjoying that. but if you came here to just derail or make light of or make fun of what others would like or want then expect their to be push back against you. civil debate only happens when both parties can agree on something right? an i think most of us can agree that they way in which they've handle housing distribution and acquirement has been in poor taste and not favorable in the least.

[Nyastra]

i think most of us can agree that they way in which they've handle housing distribution and acquirement has been in poor taste and not favorable in the least.

For me, I’d be happy if wards stayed as they are, but alts (or your main) could have instanced housing. That way the shared neighborhood aesthetic isn’t lost, but people who want personal control for their multiple characters could still have it.

That’s honestly my only real desire here, the rest I’m content leaving as-is. Wards for the community, instances for those who want them, no one stepping on anyone else’s experience. Seems like a reasonable middle ground to me.

But I am not a developer and I do not know the practical implications of such a thing so it might entirely be out of reach and it might not. After all, alts can have Island Sanctuary correct? So who knows.

I have 4 characters on one world, since I'm not spending my fortune on fantasias thank you. But unfortunately, only ONE can have a home and neither can the others share in this home aside from the fact that they are not all after the same fashion. At least if each character CAN have an instanced place, then that allows us to do so.

I would still cling to my wards on main though, besides maybe the random chocobo large in shirogane but ya know. To each their own.

[Solowing]

For me, I’d be happy if wards stayed as they are, but alts (or your main) could have instanced housing. That way the shared neighborhood aesthetic isn’t lost, but people who want personal control for their multiple characters could still have it.

That’s honestly my only real desire here, the rest I’m content leaving as-is. Wards for the community, instances for those who want them, no one stepping on anyone else’s experience. Seems like a reasonable middle ground to me.

But I am not a developer and I do not know the practical implications of such a thing so it might entirely be out of reach and it might not. After all, alts can have Island Sanctuary correct? So who knows.

I have 4 characters on one world, since I'm not spending my fortune on fantasias thank you. But unfortunately, only ONE can have a home and neither can the others share in this home aside from the fact that they are not all after the same fashion. At least if each character CAN have an instanced place, then that allows us to do so.

I would still cling to my wards on main though, besides maybe the random chocobo large in shirogane but ya know. To each their own.

I find it amusing you're giving the same reasons I have, and yet somehow you're more reasonable. He doesn't understand giving a exact duplicate of housing with 1 set having a demo timer and another isn't is going to cause frustration between players because of the inconsistent application of rules.

But he never addresses that, he just kinda skips over any point and keeps reiterating his own. Its righteousness to the point it cant be questioned, its fanatical.

[Nyastra]

I find it amusing you're giving the same reasons I have, and yet somehow you're more reasonable. He doesn't understand giving a exact duplicate of housing with 1 set having a demo timer and another isn't is going to cause frustration between players because of the inconsistent application of rules.

But he never addresses that, he just kinda skips over any point and keeps reiterating his own. Its righteousness to the point it cant be questioned, its fanatical.

Because it's no longer about the system, it's personal.

And that's why I stated that we should keep this about the system, not about dunking on other posters.

I completely understand that the inconsistent application of rules will cause an uproar even more than there already is, and that's why I am also saying that I don't know how they would fix this. Despite suggestions.

If they eliminate demo timers, people will be mad they can't get homes in wards.
If they keep demo timers and don't have the same for instanced, people will be mad.

What the solution to THIS would be I don't know.

Keep wards = Good and bad
Add instanced = Good and bad

Two sides of the same coin.

And I have to add that I personally feel if you feel so deeply that you deserve a house, then go where a house is available. Whether it be Small Medium or Large.
Don't sit on your server, complaining it's too full, because there are servers that are not. Is this the ideal solution? No. It's not. Because people are established in their FCs and worlds. I get that. In fact I understand that very well as someone who moved from Aether to Primal to Materia and to Chaos, but I had to decide what my priorities were.

It's all good and well we keep yelling that housing needs to change, but what would be the ultimate solution to this where everyone is happy? I've yet to see this because in my very honest opinion, I don't think there is one true and good solution for this at this point. And both sides keep yapping hating on each other instead of saying hold up we kinda have a common goal here but we don't have an actual solution.

Wards should never have existed if they'd want the just make everything instanced solution, but alas, wards did exist first and now we are at a crossroads where people are going to be mad regardless of what happens.

[ShadowyZero]

Keep wards = Good and bad
Add instanced = Good and bad

Two sides of the same coin.

And both sides keep yapping hating on each other instead of saying hold up we kinda have a common goal here but we don't have an actual solution.

Wards should never have existed if they'd want the just make everything instanced solution, but alas, wards did exist first and now we are at a crossroads where people are going to be mad regardless of what happens.

i don't know how long you've been here for or when you started but housing used to be for Free Companies only because in the developers current mind they thought that sharing a space with your friends would be a decent way to promote community and camaraderie but fc drama exists ofc lol an friendships break or people go separate ways so to fix this alienation an frustration they added smaller homes that could be purchased by individuals and added more house wards and then in HW added even more wards to alleviate shortages cause the game was still continuing to grow.
and then in Stormblood they added Shirogane because when there was no other content to do after weekly caps or dailys they would use their houses to spend time with their guilds and friends or take photo's. and then Shadowbringers happened during a time when games like WoW were in free fall an not doing well which lead to a huge migration over into ffxiv which why housing problems became more apparent when they were largely ignored when the playerbase was smaller. lots of talk was going on about housing not just here but all over the internet an that how we got the changing of the placard spawn camping into the lotto as well as timers for demolition, an well during the end of shadowbringers and start of endwalker we got a pandemic which forced more people to stay home often which lead to an even greater boost in the playerbase and the housing system just couldnt take it anymore so they added new servers to the rosters asking people to move to them with housing and a long lasting exp buff as their motivator to move.

[Solowing]

i don't know how long you've been here for or when you started but housing used to be for Free Companies only because in the developers current mind they thought that sharing a space with your friends would be a decent way to promote community and camaraderie but fc drama exists ofc lol an friendships break or people go separate ways so to fix this alienation an frustration they added smaller homes that could be purchased by individuals and added more house wards and then in HW added even more wards to alleviate shortages cause the game was still continuing to grow.
and then in Stormblood they added Shirogane because when there was no other content to do after weekly caps or dailys they would use their houses to spend time with their guilds and friends or take photo's. and then Shadowbringers happened during a time when games like WoW were in free fall an not doing well which lead to a huge migration over into ffxiv which why housing problems became more apparent when they were largely ignored when the playerbase was smaller. lots of talk was going on about housing not just here but all over the internet an that how we got the changing of the placard spawn camping into the lotto as well as timers for demolition, an well during the end of shadowbringers and start of endwalker we got a pandemic which forced more people to stay home often which lead to an even greater boost in the playerbase and the housing system just couldnt take it anymore so they added new servers to the rosters asking people to move to them with housing and a long lasting exp buff as their motivator to move.

Nyestra: Theres no easy solution to the housing system because its going to create problems of inconsistent rules

Shadowyzero: Heres a history lesson of the wards they added.

Me: He still hasn't addressed a thing about what they said...

[ShadowyZero]

I find it amusing you're giving the same reasons I have, and yet somehow you're more reasonable. He doesn't understand giving a exact duplicate of housing with 1 set having a demo timer and another isn't is going to cause frustration between players because of the inconsistent application of rules.

you've been vindictive and uncompromising that is why i won't take you seriously or see things from your point of view and its not just towards me you've done it to everyone who doesn't share your view. if you would have just said "i don't think things should change all that much because i like how things are but i understand why its frustrating for you." then i wouldn't have any beef with you at all but what i get from or see from you instead is: "lol you don't really want a house if you don't give up convenience or comfort to have what you want you're just trolling go play a different game if you can't tolerate not living in tiny room or sitting in endless ques to visit people or active servers you noob.(which btw those ques have been dog poo alot lately cause of the constant Ddos attacks but did you ever take that into consideration? i doubt it cause your attitude suggests the later.) "

[Solowing]

you've been vindictive and uncompromising that is why i won't take you seriously or see things from your point of view and its not just towards me you've done it to everyone who doesn't share your view. if you would have just said "i don't think things should change all that much because i like how things are but i understand why its frustrating for you." then i wouldn't have any beef with you at all but what i get from or see from you instead is: "lol you don't really want a house if you don't give up convenience or comfort to have what you want you're just trolling go play a different game if you can't tolerate not living in tiny room or sitting in endless ques to visit people or active servers you noob.(which btw those ques have been dog poo alot lately cause of the constant Ddos attacks but did you ever take that into consideration? i doubt it cause your attitude suggests the later.) "

As I expected, you will not address the last point. Youll do anything but actually address a point, but instead run to validating personal attacks on me lol

You are very much trying to pick and choose who you respond to. Anyone who understands my sentiment. You'll try to be nice to them and change their perspective on the first post. And the second and onward, either you wont reply to not pick potential fights. Or you'll start calling them blind/unaware/gatekeeping lol.

The worst part is realizing they agree with my sentiment, and yet your response to me is vitriolic, but they are logical and reasonable arguing the same exact thing I am LOL. You unfortunately cant separate facts from your feelings.

You rather attack me personally trying to use that as cover for "housing feedback" What a sad little man, all over a virtual house.

[ShadowyZero]

As I expected, you will not address the last point. Youll do anything but actually address a point, but instead run to validating personal attacks on me lol

You are very much trying to pick and choose who you respond to. Anyone who understands my sentiment. You'll try to be nice to them and change their perspective on the first post. And the second and onward, either you wont reply to not pick potential fights. Or you'll start calling them blind/unaware/gatekeeping lol.

The worst part is realizing they agree with my sentiment, and yet your response to me is vitriolic, but they are logical and reasonable arguing the same exact thing I am LOL. You don't even know who's arguing for what anymore, you're running off emotion and angst lol

i gave you my answer that they could remove timers from your ward system if they added individual instance to single/solo players but you didn't like that answer if you're expecting me to bend over backwards for you you're gunna have to give me a ring, a mansion, and all of your gil sweetie~ i'm not free ;P