New Dungeon is a return to bad habits

[SkankyRoe]

This is really what we've come to huh. Wow... I can't...

I've seen more than enough wipes to Mortal Flame over the years to know that such mechanics cannot just be "afk and watch youtube"d. And in fact the other day I had a Mistwake run that almost saw a wipe on the first boss because someone didn't pay attention and blasted an extra stalagmite so we had less time to kill the boss, it died halfway into a Bedeviling Light cast that had no stalagmites to hide behind.

Personally I found Mistwake to be on par with Alexandria and Tender Valley when it came to the boss fights, it's Underkeep and Meso Terminal that I find hella boring.

[Ath192]

I've seen more than enough wipes to Mortal Flame over the years to know that such mechanics cannot just be "afk and watch youtube"d. And in fact the other day I had a Mistwake run that almost saw a wipe on the first boss because someone didn't pay attention and blasted an extra stalagmite so we had less time to kill the boss, it died halfway into a Bedeviling Light cast that had no stalagmites to hide behind.

Personally I found Mistwake to be on par with Alexandria and Tender Valley when it came to the boss fights, it's Underkeep and Meso Terminal that I find hella boring.

Look I'll just say I believe you, but we're just different categories of players for any of our arguments to be useful to each other. Suffice to say you are happy and I'm not. The new dungeon is horrid to me. Story wise, it was fine. Execution is the problem. It's very important to distinguish between the two.

[SkankyRoe]

Look I'll just say I believe you, but we're just different categories of players for any of our arguments to be useful to each other. Suffice to say you are happy and I'm not. The new dungeon is horrid to me.

"different categories of players" indeed. I really can't fathom how you could find Mistwake to be easier or more boring than Meso Terminal.

[ShadowyZero]

I am mostly casual but I don't want casual dungeons anywhere near savage or ext difficulty, in fact I just want the game to be more fun for casual players,

I don't think dungeons need to be more difficult they need to be more fun, I think DT while was slightly more difficult was barely anymore fun for the most part, Dungeons need to have a level of forgiveness towards them but they need to be engaging enough that your still actually playing a game.

In summary better job design, more FUN dungeons, not necessarily difficult.

This is a pretty sane take bravo my hats off to you. indeed fun should always be a factor when playing any videogame as they are meant to entertain an keep you busy this doesn't equate to having a difficulty spike so god damn hard you want to break everything in your vicinity or burst a blood vessel lol
what would make dungeons more fun in my oppinion is for them to return to some old ideas they had where you solved quick puzzles or pulled a switch or level an had multiple differing paths that lead to the same end or just nice little viewing spots. as for fights i would very much like it if they did more things like they did with the azim steppe's second boss and like the Drippy fight from matoya's relic dungeon those ideas keep things interesting and fun an they really should consider adding more things like that hell even some of the blue mage carnival bosses are fun where you find creative ways to cripple or hinder bosses in some way this is what i think they need to do for regular duties/dungeons to spice things up a bit an make it fun

[ViinaS]

Ima be honest here.
You really can't compare the last boss from Grand Cosmos to the first one of Mistwake.

Mistwake has a very simple "hide behind X" Mechanic we have seen so many times already. Aoe puddle, tank buster and..... what?
Logos mechanic is different as you need to pass a debuff onto furniture. Furniture that can be destroyed by most of his other attacks. Not just an aoe dropped on you, but also his cleaves and such.

I've seen plenty of people die cause they ignored the debuff, too much furniture was destroyed or other things one could do... or rather not do.
But the first Mistwake one is just so... plain.
Arena wide aoe is just the most basic indicator to hide behind something. Not to mention there is very little risk as you only need 1 pillar intact when the last one comes around, not 1 for each.

I don't think anyone could really say the Miswake boss on its own is more fun when it's just less of everything in comparison.

And since we are talking about Grand Cosmos and Mistwake already...
Compare the bosses. No I mean really compare them and what mechanics they had each.
Not the visual clutter but what exactly the mechanics are.

Mistwake is just so much inferior in comparison. As people said the last and second boss have the same mechanics and tbh everything is just "stand here".

And I would bet if Grand Cosmos did not exist and it was released as it is but as lv.100 dungeon we would, I guarantee, see people and Forum posts complaining it was too hard.

[Xapapetsu]

We're back to endwalker difficulty content. Literally the one good thing about DT gameplay was the enhanced pace/mechanics.

I don't know what they are thinking. It's very difficult to not be disappointed all the time now.

I agree that the dungeon is extremely easy but I've felt this way about every DT dungeon so maybe my opinion doesn't really matter. What I will say is I've been in parties that consistently messed up the first boss then rage quit. I personally don't care about the difficulty of experts I'm only running them for the tomes to get bis.

[Ath192]

I agree that the dungeon is extremely easy but I've felt this way about every DT dungeon so maybe my opinion doesn't really matter. What I will say is I've been in parties that consistently messed up the first boss then rage quit. I personally don't care about the difficulty of experts I'm only running them for the tomes to get bis.

I've only seen one person die on the first boss, and it was because the AOE was so slow they tried to cram in way too many GCDs in before trying to hide. Being a greed lord basically.

I guess, what I'm trying to fix is what you just mentioned, that you don't care, and with reason. The dungeons are a giant nothing burger and an absolute unmemorable chore. Why should anyone care about such a soulless design?

So perhaps... add a soul to it, make it fun, instead of a waste of 20 minutes to just get your tomes. We are just so desensitized to it that quite frankly they could leave the same DREX for the entire 2 years of the expansion and it really wouldn't make a difference to most of us anyways.

Not all DT dungeons were fun, but for the first time in a LONG time #therewasanattempt at least on some of them and now they are going back to not even trying.

And yeah, people complained about them for sure. So as the developer exercising more effort and creativity gets you hate, so no wonder the design is so sterile noone feels anything. At least that way you can minimize criticism. It's a thankless job. But I wish they would power through it. If you try at your job, even if the loudest voices give you hate all the time, you at least know you designed something you put your heart into.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

Other than the first boss, it seemed no different than the expert dungeons we've had all expansion. Design is basically the same conceptually, only difference is that we've gotten used to what they've been doing as far as boss design goes.
On the topic of "boring" dungeons with overly simplistic fight design goes, that award goes to Meso Terminal. Easily the biggest snooze-fest of the 7.X expert lineup for me.

[Ath192]

Other than the first boss, it seemed no different than the expert dungeons we've had all expansion. Design is basically the same conceptually, only difference is that we've gotten used to what they've been doing as far as boss design goes.
On the topic of "boring" dungeons with overly simplistic fight design goes, that award goes to Meso Terminal. Easily the biggest snooze-fest of the 7.X expert lineup for me.

Nobody is or has defended Meso terminal here either. I'm just focusing on the new dungeon because I did it recently. I don't know why the poster above made that up and attributed it to me. But yeah, that's the sort of design I'd like the developers to avoid in general.

[CheshaSolttiri]

This was a fun dungeon. Adding my 2C I think it was great. People who want ultra difficulty should maybe que for diffrent content that the game more than provides.