New Dungeon is a return to bad habits

[ViinaS]

Dungeon are meant to be accessible to everyone even people with 2 brain cells, if you want harder content go play extreme/savage/ultimate

Disagree.
Maybe in level1-50 or 60 that is applicable.
These are level 100 dungeons and they are easier than most dungeons in lv.60 or 70 range, heck even 50 is they were done with correct ilvl.
At level 100 dungeons should not be designed with people that only have 2 braincells in mind.

And dungeons should not be braindead corridors.
At 100 people with 2 braincells should have been filtered out long ago, lvl 100 gameplay should not be "accessible to all" if that includes people not capeable of doing the bare minimum.

[0blivion]

Disagree.
Maybe in level1-50 or 60 that is applicable.
These are level 100 dungeons and they are easier than most dungeons in lv.60 or 70 range, heck even 50 is they were done with correct ilvl.
At level 100 dungeons should not be designed with people that only have 2 braincells in mind.

And dungeons should not be braindead corridors.
At 100 people with 2 braincells should have been filtered out long ago, lvl 100 gameplay should not be "accessible to all" if that includes people not capeable of doing the bare minimum.

This, and only this. It's a very succinct summary. The dungeon I've witnessed the most wipes in, to this day, is Stone Vigil. The highest expansion dungeon I've witnessed multiple wipes in is Shisui, not counting The Dead Ends on release because of Doom memes.

[Kaurhz]

Dungeon are meant to be accessible to everyone even people with 2 brain cells, if you want harder content go play extreme/savage/ultimate

I would say...

There is being accessible to everyone, and then there is... What they are doing... Which is designing around people that simply don't want to actually bother engaging in a reasonable capacity, and the sad thing about this, is that this methodology affects many facets of the game.

It's absolutely hilarious for people and the developers to use accessibility as a rationale for this, whilst subsequently continuing to push much of the game to aesthetic over accessibility, e.g., going for visual appeal at the expense of those that are, for example color blind, and in frankly very obnoxious ways.

[Rithy255]

I've been saying this for ages, Fix the gear scaling, Dungeons are generally trivialised by people having gear that's even slightly above min item level, Hence why a lot of it feels not punishing at all.

In general though, Dungeons should aim to be exciting, I think we're missing that in dungeon layout rather then just how much mechs they throw at us also if you consider how much job design has been downgraded, practicing a job you don't play often in casual/dungeon content has lost meaning as you dont really need to practice a different job much.

Should dungeons be accessible? yes Should dungeons be so easy that you should be able to roll through it? No. Whats the point of having content if it's that easy and bland? theirs got to be some level of challenge or awareness, I'm sorry but if your playing a game with mechanics not a visual novel.

[ShadowyZero]

i'm not gunna sugar coat and no i dont give a flip how you "try-hards" feel about it so don't @ me. what you clearly want is a different game entirely and this is not it this is Final Fantasy i can tell most of ya'll haven't touched a mainline final fantasy at all cause this is just par the course the franchise is not known for its extreme difficulties yes they do add challenging monsters and optional super bosses but none of those stop you from experience the main point which is the RPG elements and the long storied journey with comrades to challenge adversity. its all classic fairytale stuff yes most ya'll out here trying to make this some edgy gothic nightmare which it just isn't nor will it ever be. face it you're outnumbered by the casual audience and they will always opt to easiest way out possible to get things done with as little effort as possible. so take it or find better pastures better yet why not just do things synced and minimum ilvl? you're essentially challenging yourself they way you want to be challenged that or wait for more criterion dungeons or ask for more dungeons like it stop trying to trample on the casuals' space you wont win an the developers wont listen to you they made up their mind an they are going to stick with it wether you like that or not.

[Wasselin]

I think it's a return to form! I like the new dungeon. Hard dungeons and trails might be fun when they first release but they get annoying when you encounter them in roulette.

Plus making normal mode too hard has been the death of many a mmo. Keeping harder mechanics optional is the correct way.

They do need to fix the gear scaling though so that the experience can be more consistent over time.

[CNitsah]

We're back to endwalker difficulty content. Literally the one good thing about DT gameplay was the enhanced pace/mechanics.

I don't know what they are thinking. It's very difficult to not be disappointed all the time now.

Once again we never left that difficulty.

7.0 dungeons seemed more difficult because everyone had the same ilvl, around the dungeon.
Patch dungeons have to be at the ilvl of previous dungeons gear so people that only did the msq can do them. So for 7.4, dungeon is made for 735 ilvl, while most player have a mix of 670 or 680 ilvl.

[VeyaAkemi]

Personally, I had fun with the dungeon, in particular in the third boss, figuring out the exact right spots under the boss to remain at melee range when it does its "billion line AoEs across 80% of the arena" thing is pretty fun, and I feel satisfied when I clear without taking any unnecessary hits while doing that, which is pretty often by now.

[Valence]

If you’re talking about the circus with the head guy … say what you will but it had personality. I prefer an annoying dungeon over a forgettable one truly.

So you prefer going through something that just makes you want to play something else rather than play through something bland but at least tolerable?

[Rithy255]

i'm not gunna sugar coat and no i dont give a flip how you "try-hards" feel about it so don't @ me. what you clearly want is a different game entirely and this is not it this is Final Fantasy i can tell most of ya'll haven't touched a mainline final fantasy at all cause this is just par the course the franchise is not known for its extreme difficulties yes they do add challenging monsters and optional super bosses but none of those stop you from experience the main point which is the RPG elements and the long storied journey with comrades to challenge adversity. its all classic fairytale stuff yes most ya'll out here trying to make this some edgy gothic nightmare which it just isn't nor will it ever be. face it you're outnumbered by the casual audience and they will always opt to easiest way out possible to get things done with as little effort as possible. so take it or find better pastures better yet why not just do things synced and minimum ilvl? you're essentially challenging yourself they way you want to be challenged that or wait for more criterion dungeons or ask for more dungeons like it stop trying to trample on the casuals' space you wont win an the developers wont listen to you they made up their mind an they are going to stick with it wether you like that or not.

I am mostly casual but I don't want casual dungeons anywhere near savage or ext difficulty, in fact I just want the game to be more fun for casual players, which creating a learning environment with punishing mechs but also ones that don't cause auto wipes like in Ext+ is pretty needed. I think Dungeons should need to walk a fine line with difficulty pushing away players shouldn't be the objective but boring anyone who's paying some attention shouldn't be the objective either

I don't think dungeons need to be more difficult they need to be more fun, I think DT while was slightly more difficult was barely anymore fun for the most part, Dungeons need to have a level of forgiveness towards them but they need to be engaging enough that your still actually playing a game.

I think why they're running into this issue of why people feel so bored is more because Job design is very dull for anyone who's played more then one job, dungeons could be used to learn and practice a job, Such as black mage it made dungeon runs slightly more fun for me because of how differently it used to play, but that has been eroded in favour of mechanics.

When you actually look at the big picture the issue has always been that SE keeps taking away class design for better flashy mechanics, if jobs themselves are very boring in content that is meant to be easy but you need to do for tomes then it becomes a chore, SE should look into making the jobs themselves more fun and interactive because if you mess up a job in casual content for the most part its not really detrimental.

In summary better job design, more FUN dungeons, not necessarily difficult.