Shield Smite & Chain Strategem: Remove or Severely Cut

[Atreus]

Just before 7.4 dropped, a thread on /r/ffxivdiscussion was posted going over the current state of PvP balance and feedback engagement, along with a video within from Tal'ke Rainare.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...f_balance_and/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67lXxC8cm4

A major focus of the discussion was around guard crack (the effect of Shield Smite and Chain Strategem reducing the effectiveness of Guard by 50%) and how it's pretty universally agreed to be extremely detrimental to the gamestate. Please review the thread and video if you would like more insight.


Now, 7.4 dropped with a very minor change to this, citing "Additionally, we found that Chain Stratagem was too effective against Guard, so we have made adjustments to ensure that targets under the effect of Guard cannot accrue status ailments that increase damage taken."

While this is an appreciated step, this is way too minor of a solution that has done absolutely nothing to change the gamestate.

The mechanic of cracking guard needs outright removal or the impact needs to be severely cut. Guard is a tool for dealing with burst damage, takes awareness and timing to use, and becomes invalidated through the instant-use nature of Chain Strategem (again I recommend checking the reddit thread and video for a breakdown of this interaction).



***If we insist on keeping the mechanic, then the cut to Guard efficiency needs to lessened significantly (20%-30% may suffice as a starting point the players can test out). This will still allow players to punish late Guards while allowing well-timed Guards to still feel rewarding. Otherwise, remove it.***



If you remove the mechanic, then what about PLD and SCH's job identity?

Both of these jobs had identities that existed in Endwalker, before the mechanic was introduced with these jobs chosen as the "pilot jobs". You have the option of restoring those identities.


This design philosophy of approaching changes reeeaaalllllllly slowly and incrementally is not sufficient. If this isn't dealt with within the 7.4 patches, then I fear NA CCRC is going to be disappointing.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean yeah I'm fully on board with it.

Shield Smite & Chain Stratagem wouldn't even need the guard crack, just their +10% vulnerability is GENERALLY great to have.

Guard crack & Guard pierce has honestly become a bit too commonplace, with alternative mitigation options not exactly being evenly distributed or viable enough.

[Valence]

Guard cracks need to go. We've already guard piercing abilities to add pressure to Guarded targets and it's worked fine so far.

[Mercury_Grey]

Shield smite instead of cracking guard shoudl apply a debuff on their next guard "reduce guard effectiveness by 15%" instead of jsut yeah yoru guard is now weak at 30%

[Atreus]

Shield smite instead of cracking guard shoudl apply a debuff on their next guard "reduce guard effectiveness by 15%" instead of jsut yeah yoru guard is now weak at 30%

I fundamentally do not agree with being able to proactively reduce an upcoming Guard. That removes all (little remaining) skill it takes.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

Shield smite instead of cracking guard shoudl apply a debuff on their next guard "reduce guard effectiveness by 15%" instead of jsut yeah yoru guard is now weak at 30%

Unfortunately punishment curses/hexes/whathaveyou like that doesn't have a place in FFXIV pvp; past, present, and likely the future as well. There'd need to be way more skill/build variety than what is on offer to feature something like that. Chiten + LB interaction is as edgy as it gets there, and look at how divisive it's made some folks. Even mere damage reflection in some cases! It's not something I wouldn't like to see more developments in, it just can't be in the game right now, mayhap never at the going trajectory.

As for the main topic I'd rather go no comment on it at this time. Only wanted to slip in those sentiments towards that.

[gidsonBrand]

Do you think guard cracking would be more bearable if it were on offensive jobs instead? Part of the problem, imo, is that two of the most defensive classes in the game (Paladin and Scholar) also have the best answer to the universal defensive option.

Paladin/Scholar slow the pace of the game down to a crawl and turn it into a war of attrition, while also having the "screw you" button.
Dragoon, Ninja, and Monk can all have their burst damage negated by guard and then just kinda flounder around. If they had a "guard crack" option, they'd be way more relevant in the meta.

[Atreus]

Do you think guard cracking would be more bearable if it were on offensive jobs instead? Part of the problem, imo, is that two of the most defensive classes in the game (Paladin and Scholar) also have the best answer to the universal defensive option.

Not really, no. We already have guard pierce and there is no shortage of follow-through burst ever since Dawntrail.

Paladin/Scholar slow the pace of the game down to a crawl and turn it into a war of attrition, while also having the "screw you" button.
Dragoon, Ninja, and Monk can all have their burst damage negated by guard and then just kinda flounder around. If they had a "guard crack" option, they'd be way more relevant in the meta.

I mean that's the point of Guard, isn't it? Don't burst into it. Why do we need to find every way we can to punish good Guard usage? All of those jobs can followthrough out of it.

[Valence]

Do you think guard cracking would be more bearable if it were on offensive jobs instead? Part of the problem, imo, is that two of the most defensive classes in the game (Paladin and Scholar) also have the best answer to the universal defensive option.

I think so yes, but it wouldn't solve the problem that Guard cracks break the basics of the game (defending well) and therefore tend to nullify skill play.

[Esmoire]

I am less miffed by Shield Smite. For those who play at a top level-- which they should balance the game around-- you get more value out of it. As a learning player, however, it's a GCD. It's easy to get guarded just as you start a GCD, and because Shield Smite is a GCD in of itself with a delay to the guard crack application, it's very possible for it to apply with just a second of guard remaining. More experienced players on the other hand are able to better read this person is being pressured, they are going to guard, and either input it in advance, or delay to punish. The PLD job just so happens to also have been one of the most toxic jobs in the history of PvP, especially since EW and the addition of the elixir. I really think, way back in EW, we should have made Cover just absorb 99% of damage taken, then balanced the job around the limitations this would provide. As it stands, it makes it hard to approach Shield Smite in isolation, because I think the kit as a whole is problematic.

Chain Stratagem on the other hand is a point-and-click oGCD that couldn't be easier to use or get value out of. The same job also rather generously applies a healing debuff. When it becomes blue/green meta, and sustain is a big part of the game, the queen of attrition just creates an overall less fun game to play as, or play against. Unlike with PLD I think the job has issues with direction as a whole. This isn't the first expansion when healing debuffs defined a meta. DRK + SCH train during Shadowbringers wasn't fun in Feast, either. The mechanic could be fine if it was put on less obnoxious buttons and involved more expensive cooldowns or opportunity cost.