Trust System is ruining our game

[Cygnia]

Used to run with my squadron through Aurum Vale and Dzemael for fun. This is an unwelcome rug pull.
But then I also like running old content with new players. The hour long Castrum Med. with all newbies in ARR gear prior to the remodel was the most enjoyment I've had in a dungeon. We got to see all the vintage mechanics! Also never will forget that one run of a low level dungeon where the three other players were lalafells (school outing into the sahagin infested caves).

[TwiceDamned]

The only way you get rid of Duty Support would require the closure of at least one North American Data Center -- and with all the housing (RMT) outfits around, that's not happening.

[UNDEAD10000]

When the trust system got added to the game, they really should have made all main story quest dungeons having a story mode difficulty made for trust system when trust system is main reason why we haven't got any unique boss mechanics and some older dungeons unique boss mechanics being changed and simplified just for trust system and duty support in mind.

[Rueby]

Just another dungeon/s ruined by trusts, I used to love Ala Mhigo so much before they removed NPCs from it to make their 'trust run' seem 'legit' and nerfing Aulus because why risk dying or learning a mechanic through trial and error? Nah, everything will be fed to you, mouth to mouth.

I'm unhappy with what they've been doing to dungeons honestly. But hey, at least now we know that whoever is doing the dungeon design will double and triple down on the 2 packs > wall > 2 packs > boss formula. I don't run dungeons anymore, it feels like I'm running the same thing with a different reskin, I hardly even need to think- everything is just on auto pilot...

Sooo, I just don't queue anymore for dungeons. I haven't queued in a very long time. I had a love/hate towards aurum, but at least I knew my braincell is going to be doing 'some' work.

[Rithy255]

I'm gonna be honest I dislike current dungeon design a lot, but Dzemael Darkhold of all dungeons is not a good example that dungeon is awful.

[Valence]

The thing that Dzemael did well was the concept of patrols and dangers that could mess you up like the toads suddenly bumping you down the cliff. They removed the latter some time ago, and now the former. Those were successful parts of the dungeon and were a source of tanking skill expression.

The stuff about the purple crystals or the magitek gates was clearly flawed even though it had some interesting ideas of having to stand in specific areas. For instance in the case of the magitek circles, standing in a place where you take damage and have to heal through would have been a lot more interesting if mobs were also involved at the same time, but the way it was done only felt gimmicky and tedious.

[ovIm]

snip

Yes, but having that in meant that things cannot be pre-planned any more, and we can't have that, right? /s
Every bit of the PvE Design in this game feels like the devs trying their hardest to make every encounter feel as much "on-rails" as possible. No deviation from the script allowed. No player expression allowed. No surprises allowed. Every combat content needs to be as uniform as the last. Learning by rote-memorization has become the entirety of this game.

[Voidmage]

We shouldn't need to level trusts up at all imo. It's really just pointless busy work.

You get titles out of leveling that and costume switches for them.
That's as MMO as it gets and should stay in.

If you guys don't want to level them then simply use duty support each time.
Trust leveling is for those who actually enjoy the leveling grind for them as a bonus and completely optional.


@topic
Dungeons have been made into a formula thing long before trusts were a thing and as much as I miss some old ARR dungeon mechanics, a good number of them were ignored for years by now or were actively disliked like the slow inducing floor in Totorak.
Aurum Vale started to die when Coincounter got indicators already.
Funnily enough some bosses like in Copperbell mines got actually better and the chains in Halatalli are still there.

Trusts don't destroy dungeons, it's the missing risk taking of the devs for anything outside boss encounters that's the problem. Trusts would have been absolutely able to do the Dzemael crystal mechanics actually.
You could make optional paths even with trusts actually and even integrate that in the story but it seems like they have completely abandoned dungeons in that regard and put it into variant dungeons which would be "ok" if there at least was a roulette for that.
What trusts actually do have damaged though is parts of the storytelling like in 7.0 because we are now at a point where we need npcs with us all the time and for 99% it's the same small pool of them each time.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I got both DD and AV back to back across my two days of roulettes. There was one word that seemed to be playing on repeat inside my head as I was running them: "Why?"

Dzemael Darkhold

1. First was obviously the removal of Crystal buff. They weren't particularly amazing from OG but will be sorely missed as it was sort of a decent 'introduction hallway' to what's coming up next: the boss gimmick itself. At the very least they kept the mob count relatively the same & does not put any walls in between so if a tank and healer duo is confident enough to mega-pull all, they are free to do so.
2. Coming up next is the first boss itself... which is just a 'modern boss design' (ick!). None of them even hurts if it hits you so I'm not even sure what are they trying to 'teach' you here. If the old Crystal buff was confusing people could just ask, or have somebody else suggest to you? You know... this is an MMO after all? Oh right, that's what they're trying to deter. Sorry! Crystal buff has to go!
3. After first boss was history, I immediately noticed that they reduce the number of pullable packs between first boss and second boss. From five to just four - the two ghosts that hangs near two orange crystal after you take a left turn into a cave is no more. It's whatever.
4. Here comes the second boss! They... do nothing, lol. No 'untelegraphed TB', the adds don't even throw random damage (they're all telegraphed and dodgeable now). One time they decide to do damage, it's actually all adds repeatedly throwing rocks directly at all members - "So, a raidwide" was what I thought. How original. Is telling your healer to spot heal one by one that scary, SE? Not that you needed to given how outscaled they are prior to this, mind you.
5. Once 2nd boss was a history, the next pulls aren't any different aside from the fact it's two groups of 4 mobs vs the old four groups of 2 mobs now.
6. Final boss... errr... chariot AoE is now 6969 seconds cast time instead of instant now. Puddles are also gone. Again, why?

Aurum Vale

1. ...without Aurum. Lol. Okay, I'm half kidding. There were still few puddles remains but they're mostly tacked waaaay out of the way or in some corner that would needs a bot walling with auto run to even get into one. Again and again, why?
2. Mobs still hit decently hard so number of mobs that should be reasonably pulled remains the same. However there are few parts where they clearly reduce the numbers of mobs i.e. (1)The open area before Coincounter, only 5 mobs remains there. and; (2)The pathway after Coincounter leading to two Morbols. Roaming mobs are just too much handle? lol.
3. I can't speak for boss mech because I don't recall much being different.

Another two bites the dust, so to speak.

EDIT: I don't find these two in OG particularly ground breaking in design. But given how stale the modern dungeons are, with this change I will never get that "Aha it's X dungeon! Gotta do Y differently!" from these two anymore - the same as getting any modern dungeons.

[CaptainLagbeard]

The biggest problem really is the Trust/Duty Support NPCs. They're so bad at the game, and their AI somehow still manages to be dumber than the Squadron AI...


There's only 2 more dungeons for them to change for them at least, Dusk Vigil and Shisui of the Violet Tides.