RDM 7.4 changes and job identity

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

A lot of people are complaining that it doesn't do enough damage because of veraise, I'd personally like to keep that and buff rdm utility a bit more while making it slightly more competitive damage wise.

I'm gonna be perfectly honest... using Verraise as an excuse that raise casters can't be buffed into more competitive damage numbers is such a cop-out considering one of the highest damage jobs at the time was Summoner in Stormblood and probably also Shadowbringers, while retaining access to Resurrection.

Raise as a caster action is genuinely overtaxed. No, Red Mage does not need to be Black Mage levels of damage, but it could most certainly be higher.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

It's because a sizable chunk of the Forums Userbase sees obnoxious pain points as 'job identity' , and y'know, not literally every other aspect of the job.

These "obnoxious pain points" as you call them is quite literally what sets certain jobs apart from their peers. If everytime we just removed "pain points" rather than actually add reward for dealing with said breakpoints, then we could literally just boil jobs down to five sub categories, put them in role labled grey boxes and call it a day, not like it makes any difference what we pick from what's inside them.

If you (as in, to whom it concerns, not "you" you) wanted a ranged job that has less or no friction with melee attacks, you had three other casters and three phys ranged to choose from. And if balance in this game wouldnt be so utterly lopsided in favour of melees, maybe we could go back to make the 4th dps spot be a flex spot where a Red Mage could be in an actual melee position. But instead, we have to go through "removing pain points" because they make fight design clash with job design and its 2min cooldown philosophy.

[jimmybe29]

These "obnoxious pain points" as you call them is quite literally what sets certain jobs apart from their peers. If everytime we just removed "pain points" rather than actually add reward for dealing with said breakpoints, then we could literally just boil jobs down to five sub categories, put them in role labled grey boxes and call it a day, not like it makes any difference what we pick from what's inside them.

If you (as in, to whom it concerns, not "you" you) wanted a ranged job that has less or no friction with melee attacks, you had three other casters and three phys ranged to choose from. And if balance in this game wouldnt be so utterly lopsided in favour of melees, maybe we could go back to make the 4th dps spot be a flex spot where a Red Mage could be in an actual melee position. But instead, we have to go through "removing pain points" because they make fight design clash with job design and its 2min cooldown philosophy.

I 100% agree with what you said, the way they want the entire game balanced around the 2 min meta made everything worse with time. They want to make and add different mechanics to fights, so they "sacrifice" jobs in the process because everything has to fit 2 mins. Just having 1 mechanic where the ranges are in a ranged position during 2 mins is enough for them to remove any melee "constraints"
Also, bring back SHB SMN

[Voidmage]

It's because a sizable chunk of the Forums Userbase sees obnoxious pain points as 'job identity' , and y'know, not literally every other aspect of the job.

So what is the job identity of BLM now that the Enochian timer is gone, Leylines are extremely short, Sharpcast planning is gone and there are barely cast times worth mentioning?
Explosions?
I'd prefer the identity of my job being more than a visual I click four times in a row.

Gameplay is also important you know?
Given just how much got removed and changed in such a short timeframe nowadays, where do we draw the line before job identity is completely gone and everything revolves around fight design?
When RDM loses all of it's melee combos? (it's a "caster" after all)
When BLM loses the ice spells? (it's stick are explosions after all and I'll be honest, at this point that's a real worry of mine)

When people are worrying, how the devs change their main job each patch then that's a very unhealthy sign for the game, no matter the rest of the qol, the story or the fight design.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

[...] Also, bring back SHB SMN

For real. At least the job had actual damage, dots still existed and had interaction with Fester, your pet wasnt a reskinned spell, Ruin IV + Egi Assault management for movement was actually a real thing... like man, how did we fall so far from paradise.

[jimmybe29]

For real. At least the job had actual damage, dots still existed and had interaction with Fester, your pet wasnt a reskinned spell, Ruin IV + Egi Assault management for movement was actually a real thing... like man, how did we fall so far from paradise.

They keep taking everything good from us while giving nothing in exchange, I still dream of this job. It was so good.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

NGL I was in the camp of those who thought they’re only doing it to one melee combo. But after testing it in game, it just cringes me to no end. Not even any effort is given to make your character not looking silly flailing their rapier from afar but for some reason still slashing & stabbing their targets.

Now the double/triple melee combo during 2 minutes reopener can be done without the range restriction, leaving you just one melee combo outside 2m reopener to play around. No drawbacks at all. For those who might think ‘it’s just one little thing’—idk, ever heard of the proverbial ‘death by thousand cuts’? I’m not even a RDM main. I’m just a casual enjoyer of RDM but I absolutely despise how low they’ve fallen since the first time I picked it up in ShB.

What’s next in line? Deleting or increasing the range of Engagement, Displacement, CaC then add 2nd or 3rd charge to Fleche/Contre? Lol..

[Striker44]

As an RDM main...I've found the change so far to be a big bag of nothing special. If anything, it's convenient on Hunts for those marks that prevent you from getting close at times. I can't help but see some of these comments as absurdly over-dramatic or just looking for something to complain about. And in all seriousness, if you don't like being able to use the melee combo from range once in a while, then...don't? There's nothing stopping you, me, or anyone from still doing the dance, zipping into melee range to unload the combo, and then jumping back out. They didn't prevent you from using the combo in melee range, just made it so that you can use it from a distance.

[riani]

Being a melee-caster hybrid is its' identity, the former of it being what greatly sets it apart from the other casters - and what has been essentially lobotomized for about 60% of it's swordplay MELEE combo usage becoming ranged to "alleviate friction in fight design with the job performance".

Frankly, I wish at this point we'd just start treating Red Mage like a melee instead rather than dumbing down the best gameplay feature of the job. Having ranged dps lag behind in damage numbers and making double melee quasi-mandatory is what actually causes this friction. We used to make strats to accomodate for Black Mages moving less or Red Mages having melee moments, which felt more organic than putting all dps jobs into a 2-role filter for mechanics.

Raise as a caster action is genuinely overtaxed. No, Red Mage does not need to be Black Mage levels of damage, but it could most certainly be higher.

These "obnoxious pain points" as you call them is quite literally what sets certain jobs apart from their peers. If everytime we just removed "pain points" rather than actually add reward for dealing with said breakpoints, then we could literally just boil jobs down to five sub categories, put them in role labled grey boxes and call it a day, not like it makes any difference what we pick from what's inside them.

... But instead, we have to go through "removing pain points" because they make fight design clash with job design and its 2min cooldown philosophy.

I agree 100% with you. My pain point as a RDM lies there, in your answers.

[Supersnow845]

As an RDM main...I've found the change so far to be a big bag of nothing special. If anything, it's convenient on Hunts for those marks that prevent you from getting close at times. I can't help but see some of these comments as absurdly over-dramatic or just looking for something to complain about. And in all seriousness, if you don't like being able to use the melee combo from range once in a while, then...don't? There's nothing stopping you, me, or anyone from still doing the dance, zipping into melee range to unload the combo, and then jumping back out. They didn't prevent you from using the combo in melee range, just made it so that you can use it from a distance.

If I made it so all melee skills could hit from a 20 yalm radius would it not affect melee job fantasy simply because you could still stand in melee range and do melee attacks?