So we all agree plunge needs to comeback?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

As an option, sure.

Yeah, making it optional is the idea, just like how we have the ability to transform certain actions into new actions (High Jump -> Mirage Dive), but allowing you to use them separately.

[Brandr]

As an option, sure.

But having recently picked up Viper again I found the 1-button combo to be actively detrimental.
I usually remember where I am in my rotation by which key I just hit and when they're all the same key I have to look at my hotbar significantly more often than on other jobs.

There are a few tricks to help us with that.

Increasing the size of the Viper unique UI, the one with the two swords and placing it at the center south of your screen so even with your eyes focused elsewhere, you'll always see it with your peripheral vision.

Another way is reminding the current combo is always the inverse of the last one.
If the last combo was right-right-right, current one will be left-left-left, next one will be right-left-right, left-right-left, right-right-right.

[Azurarok]

I associate buttons to function and will also have issues if they forced 1-button combos. VPR does somewhat alleviate this by having a follow-up oGCD every third combo, but I still occasionally lose track after having to use anything else.

If, for example, each step of DRK's main combo recovered the same amount of mp, hp, and blood gauge then I would have no issue with it being a single button since I can always expect to get all that every time I press that button.

As of right now RPR's would be the only one that would be fine, since none of them have positionals and each hit fills 10 gauge.

[Atreus]

"B-But muh button bloat!" *unintelligible screaming.*
Joking aside. I never thought about this. Your idea would fix the class flow, and stop it from still feeling like a level 60 class in level 70 content.
Or the devs can do the easy thing and uncouple C&S from Abyssal Drain, and adjust AD to 30 seconds. But based on how current 7.0 from 7.4 is going, yeaah, that's not going to be happening because they don't care enough to do it right now.

Leaning into the button bloat joke though, peoples' idea of Unmend combo'ing into Plunge would be a good way to handle Shadowstride becoming Plunge conditionally. Same with Hypervelocity > Rough Divine and whatever would be a PLD equivalent in the future.

[Terhix]

Leaning into the button bloat joke though, peoples' idea of Unmend combo'ing into Plunge would be a good way to handle Shadowstride becoming Plunge conditionally. Same with Hypervelocity > Rough Divine and whatever would be a PLD equivalent in the future.

Functionally PLD doesn't (wouldn't) need it since you can always cast Holy Spirit when you have to dip out of melee for a single GCD, even without divine might it's 400p on demand.

[Atreus]

Functionally PLD doesn't (wouldn't) need it since you can always cast Holy Spirit when you have to dip out of melee for a single GCD, even without divine might it's 400p on demand.

? That's really not the point. Again, movement utility doesn't all need to be tied to damage.

[Azurarok]

Honestly if they'd remove the damage from PLD's they may as well just remove the gap closer altogether. Would be better a trade-off for having the best disengagement tool in the role

[Atreus]

Honestly if they'd remove the damage from PLD's they may as well just remove the gap closer altogether. Would be better a trade-off for having the best disengagement tool in the role

No. For a multitude of reasons, one of which being we already had that era and it's called Stormblood.

[Terhix]

? That's really not the point. Again, movement utility doesn't all need to be tied to damage.

What is the point then? Unmend granting you Plunge means you can do 150p GCD + 150p oGCD so a single GCD melee downtime is less punishing. On PLD if you plan Divine Might a single GCD melee downtime doesn't cost you dps at all (sans auto), and even if you don't plan for it casted Holy Spirit is still stronger than Unmend+Plunge. If PLD got a zero-damage gapcloser replacement for Intervene you can't really give it the same or even similar conditional: Shield Lob into Intervene would be a dps loss, and Holy Spirit into Intervene you'd still do in melee since Holy Spirit is part of the rotation.

[Carighan]

I mean yeah, Plunge looks cool. But in the current context it's just not a high priority.

I mean I wish were at a point where the class design as a whole, tank design specifically or Dark Knight design in particular were remotely well off enough for Plunge or its absence to find space on the docket. ������