Perhaps it's about time to re examine Pictomancer/Scholar?

[Valence]

Every job with CC options has been significantly buffed by the purify changes since any cc used at least decently will deal resource damage to the targets on top of threatening them directly on the moment. PCT is part of it, but it's not something specific to the job either so I don't think the Purify changes are really involved in PCT being good.

PCT wasn't viewed as meta before because a lot of people never understood the job, that's it. Especially when they nerfed the cast times and muse repaint cast times the job has become incredibly effortless but otherwise it's been bloated since the beginning of DT. It's one of those jobs that went under the radar imo. It's always been a top pick within the circles that knew, just not as popular. A lot of anger stemmed from the LB being dangerous to use, but considering how bloated and packed the LB itself is, that's another point that goes in favor of the job. Star prism nukes better than a MCH on steroids.

Don't get me wrong I made this thread quite some time ago and I don't think PCT even comes close to the main culprit of every woe in the community right now (SCH), or even how healers/supports are making dps jobs absolutely subpar, but among the dps, the casters are eating very, very good right now, and PCT does indeed do everything and that's annoying. I don't think a job should do everything that well. It's exactly what people hate about AST that can do everything, heal for days without a sweat, be more survivable than a tank, filled with CC to the brim, has a crazy LB, and a teleport on top of it. Like sometimes I wonder why some jobs get that kind of treatment in comparison to others.

I'd say ultimately and maybe that's just me, but compared to other casters like RDM or BLM, if you want to do as much crowd control as PCT does, then perhaps the job shouldn't deal absurd amounts of burst damage like it does right now. Or, tone down all the CC and heals/vuln debuffs idk. Like, does PCT even need the 20% heal debuff? It's already bad enough with DRK/SCH combos doing that too... I know PCT's one is less accessible but still?

[Loggos]

Ok I feel a bit vindicated then. After the rework it looked really good to me on paper so when it wasn’t received well I was confused but I lacked the expertise to evaluate the situation.

I thought some more about a couple of points so I’m going to put them under the spoiler tag for less bloat.

I would also like them to function as feedback for the devs.

Purify changes

As for the purify changes, I do think there might be a special interaction with pct’s kit though, precisely because of the burst window you mentioned.

Since its CC is tied to its beams, which are part of its bigger burst combo, the new “recuperate tax” adds 15k extra damage to that burst window in particular. That’s more than a third black comet or a second mog beam.

So if your original burst is: 8k (motif) + 24k (2x black comet) + mog/madeen (14k/16k) you go from 46k/48k burst damage to 61k/63k burst damage respectively with the purify changes. (Even worse if you can add a second 8k motif.) Idealised example of course because enemies can guard etc.

And you can do that every 30s.

I think it is this a particular interaction that might make the purify changes more impactful/problematic for pct than for other classes. It’s not just one less recuperate in general, but significantly more pressure in an already high-pressure situation. As far as I’m aware even among the jobs with a lot of CC there are few that have such an intense burst window paired with CC?

If this is the case then I think this would emphasise both our points: you’re right that it’s not fair that pct should deal so much damage (incl. a negated recuperate) AND have CC in the same situation.

But it might also highlight that the purify changes could have been a major culprit in “breaking” the job because relatively speaking that 15k “heal tax” did more for pct’s burst window than it did for other classes perhaps.

(Hence why in an ideal world I’d like to see how pct, now that it’s on people’s radars, would perform systematically under the old purify mechanism. Though that’s unrealistic, I know.)

CC compromise

Maybe a middle ground would be to change mog/madeen beam depending on the palette stance:

“white comet” palette gives you a weaker beam with a stun, “black comet” palette gives you a pure high damage AoE beam (yes, this would be cynical because it would kind of give pct what they took from rdm after the rework).

You’d have to evaluate what to sacrifice depending on the situation which I think could be interesting for strategic usage at high level play but it would also help at lower levels.
Because in uncoordinated teams that selfish damage can be really useful to give you a shot at carrying a team.

The same kit at high and low ranks

I think this last point ties in with a bigger problem, which is that low ranks and high ranks are practically different game modes but a job has to function and be fun in both of them (and jobs also being viable in frontline aggravates this problem).

I completely understand high-level players’ frustration when job balance leads to a really skewed and unfun meta once you are able to use jobs at their full potential.

I’m speaking purely in my own interest here, but at the same time if a job, that is OP at the top, is less fun to play at lower levels then I do think that’s also bad for lower-rank players who pay the same to enjoy the game.

This is a conflict that can’t be solved in a way everybody is happy, I know (esp. for dedicated supports; sch will always be sch and its current problematic design aside I don't want to take away from its inherent support nature that just doesn't work well at lower levels; that's just an "it is what it is" scenario, I think).
But perhaps there might be ways to find compromises for pct in particular.

For example, from what I understand a big problem (aside from the burst and CC for which I covered a potential compromise above) is that pct’s heal-down stacks with sch’s and drk’s heal-down, absurdly amplifying the baseline scholar creates? And pct’s shield spread also stacks with every other shield (incl. sch’s)?

At the same time, at lower levels where comps are much more diverse and less coordinated that shield spread and heal-down have a very different impact. The shield can help you save your team mate now and then and the heal-down can be a great help in those occasional instances of coordinated attacks (IF that coordination also aligns with your heal-down's availability in the muse cycle, which is rare! And that rarity/relative difficulty is what makes it so fun and rewarding.). But at those levels neither skill breaks games (esp. since in those chaotic comps you are much more incentivised to keep the shield for yourself).

As much as I don’t want that stale scholar meta at top levels, I’d be bummed out when I, as a lower-rank player, couldn’t use those skills for my very different “game reality”.

So for the compromise

What if pct’s shield and heal-down would not be allowed to stack and couldn’t be added on top of existing shields and heal-down debuffs (while “higher priority” classes like sch would be allowed to overwrite pct's shields/debuff since that’s the core of their class identity)? Perhaps that would make them less toxic at higher levels while also keeping their utility at lower ranks?

I’m not talking a general “no stack” rule that might make overwriting messy, but a specific “de-prioritisation” for pct’s shield/heal-down that always puts it “below” other competing effects in terms of its “right to exist”.

Small Clawed Muse defense

I want to defend pct’s heal-down debuff here for a second because thematically it has a place and adds a bit of flavour to its gameplay: Each muse is a way to boost damage, either focusing on yourself or benefitting the team (simple self-buff, spell speed, debuff, dot).

But since they’re all different approaches to boosting damage and you can’t always control when you unlock a certain effect, you often have to adapt to what you get instead.

And no, it’s not rocket science, you’re not playing 5D chess on the fly. But it’s just fun that you have to think a little bit differently every time you use a different muse.

So that’s a part of pct’s identity that I don’t want to miss. Without those effects it would just be incredibly boring ogcds.

Also, whereas you can get the heal-down 15s in at the start of the game, you then only have it every 60s.
And you also can’t hold it forever because then you’ll lock yourself out of your madeen beam and pom muse (personal buff).

This makes it situational and less flexible because you’ll be forced to use it at some point, even if the situation may not be optimal.

Now I don’t know how this plays out at the top of the meta but if SE plans to address this then it would be very appreciated if they do it in a way that keeps this part of the “chaotic/creative” identity.
Turning it into a simple ogcd would be disappointing.

[Valence]

Like again, we can compromise all we want, I'm all for it, but the fact remains that this job has everything:

- Insanely high burst damage
- Insane amount of line AoE crowd control that are essentially (no so) mini Purgations.
- Buffs and debuffs (damage/heal up/down).
- 8k potency Shield spread on 30 f*** yalms (????) - edit: and they just made this go through walls now wtf
- Free dash + sprint on short recast.
- No cast times on what matters.
- Everything on 25y range, nukes everything.
- Bloated LB that does everything (heals, mitigates, cheese knockback) and can literally oneshot opponents under the proper muses.

I don't know if people realize how unhinged this kit is. And maybe that's because of how bloated it is that it looks so complicated to use at lower ranks just saying.
Either we compromise by nerfing everything across the board or by introducing exclusions at the risk of making it even more complicated, or we just cut through the fat and make actual choices. It's the exact same problem AST, it's bloated and does everything too well.

[SpritePR]

Like again, we can compromise all we want, I'm all for it, but the fact remains that this job has everything:

- Insanely high burst damage
- Insane amount of line AoE crowd control that are essentially (no so) mini Purgations.
- Buffs and debuffs (damage/heal up/down).
- 8k potency Shield spread on 30 f*** yalms (????) - edit: and they just made this go through walls now wtf
- Free dash + sprint on short recast.
- No cast times on what matters.
- Everything on 25y range, nukes everything.
- Bloated LB that does everything (heals, mitigates, cheese knockback) and can literally oneshot opponents under the proper muses.

I don't know if people realize how unhinged this kit is. And maybe that's because of how bloated it is that it looks so complicated to use at lower ranks just saying.
Either we compromise by nerfing everything across the board or by introducing exclusions at the risk of making it even more complicated, or we just cut through the fat and make actual choices. It's the exact same problem AST, it's bloated and does everything too well.

I play PCT myself and the grassa goes through walls change is unhinged. I'm definitely using it currently however lol.