Remove the wall between the monster groups before each boss so we can pull all

[SamuraiMiqo]

We're really going to pretend the huge anti-casual player sentiment for the entirety of Dawntrail's existence didn't happen, huh? Alright then.
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I came here expecting a cooperative game, yes, but never did find one after three years, and this last year has been the worst of it. Why the hell would I WANT to play with the people happy to see others getting filtered out? This "good" you speak of just doesn't seem to be out there from my personal experience, which is why it's better for me to treat this as a single-player game where sometimes I have to put up with other people.

Maybe your time here has been nothing but roses and rainbows, I'm not going to argue that, but just like how I'll never be as good as you at the game and remain walled from a lot of its content I'm also never going to have the same social experience you did either.
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I 100% agree with this. There was a thread a few months back titled 'Here We Go Again' about people who were having issues with the raised difficulty. What happened? People stormed in, mostly from what I can tell raiders, saying things like 'git gud' and 'bye, we won't miss you'. And yes, I admit that I greatly dislike the direction the dungeons have gone too, its too fast and too chaotic for some, and not everyone has an instant reaction to attacks (I STILL have issues with Second Walk boss attacks, one i flat out DON'T UNDERSTAND and no matter what I do, can't comprehend it)

People say 'you're level 100, do whats expected of you' 'Use trusts then', or 'Stop playing, you're the reason the game sucks to begin with' Why? WHY do we have to push each other down instead of raising them up to help? What happened to civil conversations and sharing ideas and tactics? All i've seen on the forums for the past few months is just constant complaining or outright fighting. It should never come down to an 'us vs them' mentality. Ever. We're all players of a game, of a franchise we enjoy, yes?

I admit, i am NOT a fantastic player, I die a lot in dungeons,I miss mechanics, and sometimes I just don't understand certain things. Should I leave? Should I just stop playing? No, and I won't.

As for the OP Topic. I say keep things as is on the lower level dungeons, GRADUALLY making them a little bigger per expansion, letting people get a feel for them and becoming comfortable. That way people don't get left behind and can study the mobs/layout.

[Zered]

Did you read any of what I said? Not only are there a ton of reasons other than anxiety people might kneejerk away from the roulette after a change like this, again, FFXIV is known for being the casual, RP driven MMO. You will have new players coming in expecting this. You will have old players who play this to relax getting needlessly stressed. You might have people returning who are still trying to regain their bearings.

It will irreversibly change dungeon mentality. You say there is a choice but there isn't even now. Once that floodgate is opened you will be pressured to run the entire thing in speedrun mode and if you try to take it slow people pull for you. If there is an option to go faster players will always push for it, regardless of how anyone else might feel. And if that is the attitude you truly want in FFXIV you can guarantee this is turning into WoW 2.0 over long or short. Much as I will glaze that game I love FFXIV and WoW for entirely different reasons and if SE erases the identity that will hurt it in a way I do not think they could recover from.

They can expect whatever they want. Unless healer+tank and maybe atleast 1 dps is onboard and capable, it will lead to a wipe.
Just like people now live with it when tank is noob and needs to pull 1 pack at a time, they can live with it when someone chooses to pull only 2 or 3 packs out of 4.
This is primarily a healer and tanker decision since DPS just stand there and enjoy nuking more enemies. If people want to ensure a fast run then they can tank or heal. DPS get the tank/healer that they get and they can deal with it; best case they get a faster run, worst case it is the same as now. As for DPS pulling extra, it either ends up working out or a wipe happens and they wasted everyone's time so why do it? Plus tank can always say "you pull it, you tank it".
What's wrong with changing dungeon mentality? Nothing of value will be lost. Dungeons are currently just a chore people do to get their levels and tomes so they can go do what they actually want.

Most people at higher levels would want to push it and they should have the possibility instead of being dragged down because some super casuals want to chill. That's what the Trust system is for.
The argument against removing the walls is very weak. It's basically "nobody should have the option because some people may not want to pull hard but may feel pressured and their feelings trump everyone else's gameplay experience regardless of the fact they have the ability to pull 2 packs".
Current system has tanks falling asleep while pulling and healers sitting around being bored just spamming aoe damage spell and the occasional heal. Maybe some DPS classes with CC can have an opportunity to fully utilize their kits to help lessen the burden on tank too, like ninja's aoe ice or mage sleep, stuff that people never have n opportunity to use.

[Kaurhz]

Lmao

This ain't fixing the repetitive chore component, beyond a certain point 2 x 3 is not really any more engaging than 1 x 3, especially when in 99.9% the monsters don't actually do anything noteworthy.

[FeyFavilla]

They can expect whatever they want. Unless healer+tank and maybe atleast 1 dps is onboard and capable, it will lead to a wipe.
Just like people now live with it when tank is noob and needs to pull 1 pack at a time, they can live with it when someone chooses to pull only 2 or 3 packs out of 4.
This is primarily a healer and tanker decision since DPS just stand there and enjoy nuking more enemies. If people want to ensure a fast run then they can tank or heal. DPS get the tank/healer that they get and they can deal with it; best case they get a faster run, worst case it is the same as now. As for DPS pulling extra, it either ends up working out or a wipe happens and they wasted everyone's time so why do it? Plus tank can always say "you pull it, you tank it".
What's wrong with changing dungeon mentality? Nothing of value will be lost. Dungeons are currently just a chore people do to get their levels and tomes so they can go do what they actually want.

Most people at higher levels would want to push it and they should have the possibility instead of being dragged down because some super casuals want to chill. That's what the Trust system is for.
The argument against removing the walls is very weak. It's basically "nobody should have the option because some people may not want to pull hard but may feel pressured and their feelings trump everyone else's gameplay experience regardless of the fact they have the ability to pull 2 packs".
Current system has tanks falling asleep while pulling and healers sitting around being bored just spamming aoe damage spell and the occasional heal. Maybe some DPS classes with CC can have an opportunity to fully utilize their kits to help lessen the burden on tank too, like ninja's aoe ice or mage sleep, stuff that people never have n opportunity to use.

What you are arguing for is for the FFXIV dungeons to be like the WoW experience. I don't know in how many more words to explain how awful of an idea that is. The FFXIV community is not chill and kind just because they are a different breed of human, it's because the slow paced gameplay attracts more relaxed, friendly people willing to spend a few extra minutes helping out. Arguing for breaking that system apart will lead to nothing productive. I have run plenty M+ in my time in WoW, it's fun. Just not for FFXIV. If someone wants engaging, high thrill content they do not play this MMO, much as I hate to say.
I understand where the argument for faster runs comes from and if this was a different game I might agree, but I just don't think you quite understand how badly this would impact the massive casual playerbase in the long run for a few minutes shaved off some daily roulettes.

[tsuchii]

i think we should just remove walls altogether. pull everything - pack 1 pack 2 boss 1 pack 3 pack 4 boss 2 pack 5 pack 6 boss 3 and kill everything in 1 place.
that would be fun

[Supersnow845]

That just goes to show that the game is filled with two very incompatible playerbases now because the divide between casuals and hardcores will never be mended, no matter how much Square-Enix tried to delude themselves with Chaotic Raids and Forked Tower.

Neither casual or hardcore players should be getting forced into content they don't want to do for whatever reason, and while you can tell yourself that the game needed "correcting" after the supposed snoozefest of Endwalker by making Dawntrail as hard as possible, said correction seems to have caused a MUCH bigger dip in the player count than whatever might have occurred during Endwalker that might have made people leave.

If you think the current downward trend is worth it so you can have normal content not be normal anymore, keep on demanding more of it I guess, you probably don't notice fewer players around on Aether anyway so you have everything to gain and nothing to lose..

Don’t pretend like the dip in DT can be entirely ascribed to the fact that you don’t like harder casual content, nobody likes DT for a multitude of reasons but the change in casual content has had as many supporters as it has had detractors, hell it was one of the few times yoshi p came right out and said “we messed up” in regards to EW’s casual content.

Their internal metrics probably aren’t saying “the playerbase collapsed because we made casual content hard” when the DT casual content difficulty change is something yoshi p directly implemented due to EW feedback

[Anienai]

Can we pull the ENTIRE dungeon up to the last boss?

[FeyFavilla]

Lmao

This ain't fixing the repetitive chore component, beyond a certain point 2 x 3 is not really any more engaging than 1 x 3, especially when in 99.9% the monsters don't actually do anything noteworthy.

In fairness I think this here is actually the real issue. Making the instances be able to be speed-ran does not change the designs being lackluster and boring. It would be better to advocate for more engaging enemies rather than just dissect the pacing. Maybe some that need to be kited, or the group splitting, who knows. I am no game dev so my input would be limited but all this will do, as pointed out, is have the same boring runs but on x2 speed. Someone who is raid geared will still fall asleep pulling twice as much.

[FeyFavilla]

Don’t pretend like the dip in DT can be entirely ascribed to the fact that you don’t like harder casual content, nobody likes DT for a multitude of reasons but the change in casual content has had as many supporters as it has had detractors, hell it was one of the few times yoshi p came right out and said “we messed up” in regards to EW’s casual content.

Their internal metrics probably aren’t saying “the playerbase collapsed because we made casual content hard” when the DT casual content difficulty change is something yoshi p directly implemented due to EW feedback

That, I guess, we will see in 8.0 and how they decide to continue fight designs. With the current state of the game and community the next xpac will be a hugely deciding factor on the popularity of FFXIV going forward. We only have a small snapshot of opinions in the forums, going both ways. If the content stays the way it is or gets harder and folks leave or in contrary fashion return en masse we will see for sure how folks felt. Until then it is guesswork since as you said DT kinda turned people off in general.

[Supersnow845]

In fairness I think this here is actually the real issue. Making the instances be able to be speed-ran does not change the designs being lackluster and boring. It would be better to advocate for more engaging enemies rather than just dissect the pacing. Maybe some that need to be kited, or the group splitting, who knows. I am no game dev so my input would be limited but all this will do, as pointed out, is have the same boring runs but on x2 speed. Someone who is raid geared will still fall asleep pulling twice as much.

In the nicest way possible if people are arguing against allowing people to pull more (which I also agree won’t fix the problem) then do you really expect them to be able to engage with more complex trash mechanics without being overwhelmed?

Like especially from the tanks perspective whose job doesn’t change whether they pull 2 mobs or 200 mobs. Would pulling 4 packs be overwhelming but kiting and interupts or crowd control and other things like bringing mobs to specific areas or whatever idea not be overwhelming?

Like pulling 4 packs instead of 2 is literally the simplest way to increase “engagement”, if that’s overwhelming why wouldn’t any else be