Bring difficulty back to job rotations, not just boss mechanics.

[Remarus]

As Valence said, you're turning it into a weaker caster then that has less free movement than any mDPS. As soon as the damage increase matches that, then you'll hear the screeching from all the other roles.

My TLDR from the Walking Casts thread over in the DPS side of the forums is simple: You think you want walking casts because it works in PvP, but you don't. Current PvE's a whole other ball game that will not work with the Heavy inflicted on a MCH in this scenario, especially with the fast-paced DDR.

I play both PVP and regularly do Savage content. I am perfectly fine with Walking Casts, even with DDR. You can clear almost every mechanic in this game with Walk toggled on if you position yourself correctly. This sounds like a skill issue.

Those that you cannot simply walk out of, the lack of uptime is the penalty for the higher DPS it would entail, the same as Melee classes.

[Supersnow845]

No, because then it turns it into a caster, which goes directly against the initial statement of intent.



It didn't make it unique, it made it a caster, plain and simple. 1.5s casts perhaps, which was caster lite back then (and caster heavy today), but still a caster nonetheless.

I’m not saying I want walking casts but what even is physical range’s statement of intent

ARR BRD was mostly free moving support, HW was walking casts, SB was high damage decent support, ShB->DT “yo we heard you like being useless”

[Heroman3003]

I’m not saying I want walking casts but what even is physical range’s statement of intent

ARR BRD was mostly free moving support, HW was walking casts, SB was high damage decent support, ShB->DT “yo we heard you like being useless”

Isn't the whole thing with Ranged Physical right now "low personal DPS, increase overall party DPS through buffs, maximum mobility"?

[Supersnow845]

Isn't the whole thing with Ranged Physical right now "low personal DPS, increase overall party DPS through buffs, maximum mobility"?

Well yes (though MCH doesn’t even fit the “increase damage with buffs”)

But still that’s not what physical ranged have always been, so again what is physical ranged design brief

[Heroman3003]

Well yes (though MCH doesn’t even fit the “increase damage with buffs”)

But still that’s not what physical ranged have always been, so again what is physical ranged design brief

Design brief can change over time. Remember how Astrologian was meant to be 'halfway hybrid' between White Mage's pure healing and Scholar's shields until they introduced Sage and reworked Astro so that it's a full dichtomy now? Same story. As the game changes, more jobs are introduced and content design shifts over time, the design purposes for roles and specific jobs will also change to account for that.

[Supersnow845]

Design brief can change over time. Remember how Astrologian was meant to be 'halfway hybrid' between White Mage's pure healing and Scholar's shields until they introduced Sage and reworked Astro so that it's a full dichtomy now? Same story. As the game changes, more jobs are introduced and content design shifts over time, the design purposes for roles and specific jobs will also change to account for that.

That’s my point, if design brief changes over time then why is the other persons assertion that waking casts don’t fit the design brief correct

It’s only against the “current brief” (which already barely accounts for MCH)

[ForsakenRoe]

I’m not saying I want walking casts but what even is physical range’s statement of intent

ARR BRD was mostly free moving support, HW was walking casts, SB was high damage decent support, ShB->DT “yo we heard you like being useless”

Considering that you could bring a Double Caster comp in place of a PhysRanged/non-BLM caster comp, and potentially outperform the PRanged comp (even with losing the 1% boost that a PRanged brings)...

I guess the intent for the role is 'you bring Tactician, or a Tactician reskin'? Oh, and the exceptionally rare 'Interrupt casts, also the casts are frequent enough that the Tanks alone cannot handle it' which... is there any examples of this recently besides E8S? Does E8S even count as 'recent' anymore?

At least in SB we had Refresh/the TP-restoring version of Tactican, so PRanged had an actual niche: Sustaining party resources to maintain their DPS/HPS output

[Valence]

I’m not saying I want walking casts but what even is physical range’s statement of intent

ARR BRD was mostly free moving support, HW was walking casts, SB was high damage decent support, ShB->DT “yo we heard you like being useless”

The initial statement of intent was referring to Mikey's advertised goal to make a job more unique. Turning them into casters seems to go directly against said statement to me.

If we want to know what the rphys statement of intent is instead, then you'll have many different responses depending on who you ask. Mine is definitely: not casters. At least not in the magical caster sense. I said above however that cast times that do not impede movement are something I'd consider unique enough to the role to warrant them be a potential thing.

I used to believe rphys could go back to some of its roots which were heavy rng and meaningful proc/priority systems baked into complicated toolkits to manage. Melees have ranged considerations, casters have uptime mobility considerations, people always complain that rphys have none. Then here you go, they'd have the most complex toolkits to play with instead, with a lot of organic interactions that would break a glass ceiling that skilled play would only approach in an asymptotic way. I'd also bake the party resource support into it but it seems it's been deleted from the battle system itself in ShB so... that would need a bigger rework.

[Remarus]

The initial statement of intent was referring to Mikey's advertised goal to make a job more unique. Turning them into casters seems to go directly against said statement to me.

If we want to know what the rphys statement of intent is instead, then you'll have many different responses depending on who you ask. Mine is definitely: not casters. At least not in the magical caster sense. I said above however that cast times that do not impede movement are something I'd consider unique enough to the role to warrant them be a potential thing.

I used to believe rphys could go back to some of its roots which were heavy rng and meaningful proc/priority systems baked into complicated toolkits to manage. Melees have ranged considerations, casters have uptime mobility considerations, people always complain that rphys have none. Then here you go, they'd have the most complex toolkits to play with instead, with a lot of organic interactions that would break a glass ceiling that skilled play would only approach in an asymptotic way.

Heavy RNG is not really meaningful design, it's a recipe to bench those classes unless they passively provide a significant buff to the rest of the party (DNC and BRD). There's too much opportunity for poor RNG to wildly swing you from underperforming to overperforming, and DPS checks continue to get tighter in encounter design. Making all phys ranged have complex toolkits also goes against their (correct) design philosophy of having jobs that require varying levels of skill floors to ensure both great players and not so great players have options to meaningfully contribute in non-high-end gameplay. All you have to do is look at how Crit RNG dependent some jobs already are here to see throwing RNG on top of RNG isn't a solution. There's a reason Roll the Bones got major reworks for Outlaw Rogues in WoW, because basing a class off of RNG is a recipe for failure.

[Valence]

From my experience, heavy rng has only ever been a problem on sparse, ultra heavy nukes from 2 min bursts windows that appeared in ShB and onward, as seen as with the whole kaiten debacle and how they tried to mitigate the crit variance. When it's about the filler as it used to be the case for MCH, etc, it's never been too much of a problem. I've played enough BRD in savage and above to know that the rng variance in damage output wasn't very meaningful. What was meaningful was the multiplying modifiers and factors baked into the 2min burst though, it swung wildly on my rdps output.

What I find more interesting than petty numbers is the triage, choice and agency they do provide and how they do break a monotonous script. You can perfectly tone down rng damage variations in favor of rng agency.