"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Grimforth]

Not with Dzemael Darkhold, and the frogs. Also, in terms of communication, some tanks do ask, and then people ignore that.

Yeah it's pretty sad when the player base doesn't really care that you're learning. They want you to pull big and go fast either way. Because fuck your feelings I guess.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t really see how pulling small is actually teaching anything because it doesn’t give any space for a mistake to actually be made

How your mitigation responds to larger packs, the correct way to layer stronger longer mitigation with shorter weaker mitigation, how to capture rogue enemies hitting a player who is panicking, how mitigation that relies on different interactions works (such as enemies having to hit you to activate arms length)

All of that is taught to you by pulling larger than a pull that eos can solo heal while the SCH /follow’s you. There is nothing to learn in a small pull; other than maybe how angry you can make your healer as by and large pull size affects the healer not the tank

[Elephantality]

Friend of mine tried tanking at the very start with one friend and randoms, things went wrong apparently. He has had an aversion to it ever since. However from my experience learning it, having a healer encourage me to go big, going "Go go go! Murder", is probably much better than any other way of communication, or simply ignoring a tank and just acting without any communication. I disagree that there is nothing to learn in a small pull. You still have to learn how to tank, how to select a specific target if it's not aggroed to you, etc. If what you say was the case, my friend would not have been embarrassed by whatever happened when he tried tanking as his first class. (He lost control it seemed, and my other friend was busy but was being called to try to help)

[Yeonhee]

Friend of mine tried tanking at the very start with one friend and randoms, things went wrong apparently. He has had an aversion to it ever since. However from my experience learning it, having a healer encourage me to go big, going "Go go go! Murder", is probably much better than any other way of communication, or simply ignoring a tank and just acting without any communication. I disagree that there is nothing to learn in a small pull. You still have to learn how to tank, how to select a specific target if it's not aggroed to you, etc. If what you say was the case, my friend would not have been embarrassed by whatever happened when he tried tanking as his first class. (He lost control it seemed, and my other friend was busy but was being called to try to help)

You don't learn with small pulls. You don't have to use mitigation and it's very hard to not get aggro to like, 3 mobs. And at that point, even the sch's fairy can keep the tank alive single handedly without any issue. As for your friend, it's hard to say without having saw it. But maybe they didn't put their stance on and that's why they had so much trouble. But then again, that wouldn't be an issue of pull number but an issue of not having read their tooltips.

[IttyBittyShark]

my favorite thing to do while ive been leveling ninja is run really far ahead and grab everything with kunai and dash back to my group. so fun.

[Elephantality]

You don't learn with small pulls. You don't have to use mitigation and it's very hard to not get aggro to like, 3 mobs. And at that point, even the sch's fairy can keep the tank alive single handedly without any issue. As for your friend, it's hard to say without having saw it. But maybe they didn't put their stance on and that's why they had so much trouble. But then again, that wouldn't be an issue of pull number but an issue of not having read their tooltips.

I think the thing is for beginners, we wouldn't know either way. However, I think if anyone wants a beginner to try something out of their comfort zone, I think positive encouragement is probably the best bet. Sure, I know now that pulling big is certainly doable, but a tank in their first dungeon might not. Of course I understand if they keep doing it, then it's already time for them to break out of their shell. (Plus personally, I practiced all that in duty supports to gain confidence, and then only ran things with premade) [I am thankful for duty support, only reason why I can confidently tank in this game, in WoW, I only tanked once because I do not have that opportunity to practice myself there]

[Yeonhee]

I think the thing is for beginners, we wouldn't know either way. However, I think if anyone wants a beginner to try something out of their comfort zone, I think positive encouragement is probably the best bet. Sure, I know now that pulling big is certainly doable, but a tank in their first dungeon might not. Of course I understand if they keep doing it, then it's already time for them to break out of their shell. (Plus personally, I practiced all that in duty supports to gain confidence, and then only ran things with premade) [I am thankful for duty support, only reason why I can confidently tank in this game, in WoW, I only tanked once because I do not have that opportunity to practice myself there]

Sure, it's totally understandable for a low-level tank to not wallpull in pre-50 dungeons. Past 50 however, dungeons become easier enough and jobs have more than enough tools to handle wallpull without any issues. As for the topic of the thread, YPYT isn't usually an issue of not being comfortable enough to do it but a lot more often is an issue of ego like "I'm the leader of the group and nobody but me has the right to pull".

[Elephantality]

On the topic of YPYT:

It is not appropriate for a PUG dps to pull mobs, without prior arrangement in place. For this to be an offence which causes exclusion, then you would have to show where it declares this as reasonable.

I think DPS having arms length shows it can be reasonable for DPS to pull. I think a tank turning off their stance or just having that mentality in any way, is griefing. However I also do think DPS pulling ahead, without bringing the mobs back to the tank is also a form of griefing. I think what matters here is team work. If it helps make the dungeon go smoothly, then I think it is fine. Healer rescuing tank into mobs when sprint is down? Totally fine, stuff like that. White mage using holy very early before mobs are grouped up tight? Not as helpful.

[Grimforth]

On the topic of YPYT:



I think DPS having arms length shows it can be reasonable for DPS to pull. I think a tank turning off their stance or just having that mentality in any way, is griefing. However I also do think DPS pulling ahead, without bringing the mobs back to the tank is also a form of griefing. I think what matters here is team work. If it helps make the dungeon go smoothly, then I think it is fine. Healer rescuing tank into mobs when sprint is down? Totally fine, stuff like that. White mage using holy very early before mobs are grouped up tight? Not as helpful.

I just love how you're just completely justifying what so many people hate in this topic and when it comes to tanking in general.

It doesn't matter if you have arms length, don't pull for the tank.

If you want the dungeon to go smoothly, then let the tank pull simple as that. Don't run ahead pop arms length and then run it back to the tank.

As a Healer don't run ahead and then use rescue to pull a time to get them to go faster even if Sprint is down. Nobody likes being rushed.


Everything you said here basically falls under griefing.

I really hope the devs and GM's read these forum posts because I think they honestly need to increase the punishment for stuff like this since so many people here don't think making things difficult for others is a big deal.

[Elephantality]

Everything you said here basically falls under griefing.

What should a DPS arms length be used for then? I will admit though being rushed will never feel good. I personally would not do that myself. Yet I also don't see it as something to 'punish'. However at the same time, when I tank, if I see a healer's mana low, I will wait for them.