2 Person Premades in Casual Crystalline Conflict?

[RedAkihabara]

My math is usually correct, cause i have masters degree in it.

The goal shouldn't be to fix the system, instead remove premades. Square gave up on pvp a decade a go. They haven't fixed matchmaking this far and won't. There are easy improvements that we could have even in this maintenance mode. Remove premades, randomize teams(rw), remove samurai lb and remove battle high. Tweak an ini file, change some ones in to zeros. Instead they added premades in to CC, facepalm.

A credential "masters degree" is no substitute for sound logic. Your reasoning contains a fundamental error in applying mathematical principles to a dynamic system.

Your core fallacy is in your grouping. You claim that if strong premades have an 80% win rate, the combined win rate of everyone else must be below 50%. This is only true if "everyone else" played exclusively and constantly against premades. They do not. The matchmaking pool is a spectrum, not a binary. A more accurate model is:

Group A: Strong Premades (e.g., 5% of the population, 80% win rate)

Group B: Players in matches affected by Group A (e.g., 20% of the population at any time). Their win rate against the premades is low.

Group C: The remaining majority of players (75% of the population) in matches without a strong premade. Their win rate averages 50%.

The system wide average remains 50% because Group A's high win rate is offset by the temporary losses of the specific players in Group B when they face them, not by permanently suppressing the win rate of the entire non premade population. You are conflating a localized effect with a global average. This is a critical oversight for someone touting a math background.

"Remove premades": This would kill the social aspect that motivates a huge portion of the player base to queue. You are advocating for a solution that would shrink the population even further, making every problem you described worse.

The goal should always be to fix the system, not remove its features. Every other successful competitive game builds its entire social framework around playing with friends. They use skill based matchmaking to balance premades against appropriately skilled opponents. The problem isn't the premade it's FFXIV's inability to create a fair match around it.

Your argument boils down to: "The system is broken, so we should break it more by removing what people enjoy." That is a defeatist stance that guarantees the mode's stagnation. The rational path is to demand a competent matchmaker that can accommodate team play, not to lobotomize the mode into a sterile, solitary experience because the current implementation is flawed.

[Crippy22]

My math is usually correct, cause i have masters degree in it.

Grouping people in strong premades and solo players is very valid, when strong premades are ruining the game for others. Strong premades push others to have compined <50% winrate. This is a simple mathematical fact.

-The remaining players are in a much larger pool of matches where no premade is present. In these games, their collective win rate will average to 50%.

So your grouping people in to strong premades and everyone who has ever played a gainst them, and a group of magical casuals who have never played against a premade. Yes, people who have never played against a strong premade have not their winrate affected by them.

+ the dip in winrate is not the main issue. Playing against premade is horibble.

The goal shouldn't be to fix the system, instead remove premades. Square gave up on pvp a decade a go. They haven't fixed matchmaking this far and won't. There are easy improvements that we could have even in this maintenance mode. Remove premades, randomize teams(rw), remove samurai lb and remove battle high. Tweak an ini file, change some ones in to zeros. Instead they added premades in to CC, facepalm.

Your "Masters degree" must be in creative accounting, because your math is a fantasy. The system's 50% win rate average comes from thousands of matches, not just the ones you lose to premades. A player who loses to a premade once can win their next three solo games. Their win rate isn't permanently crushed unless they quit, which is your real goal.

Your solution remove the feature that keeps queues populated is like trying to fix a car by removing the engine. You'd rather kill the mode entirely than have a single challenging match. That's not logic, it's a tantrum.

[Raikai]

I honestly don't like the idea of premades in a casual setting... Because in the end, it will just add another big variable to the win rate if you're going solo: which group has the most (1 or 2) premades. Unless they change the matchmaking to only put premades against other groups with premades too, which is unlikely as it would inflate the queue times.

If they really wanted a "Training Wheel" for people to get used to PVP, they could just add a no-reward Duty Support feature to it with AI controlled NPCs, and there you could go solo or with your premade coach.

[Elephantality]

If they really wanted a "Training Wheel" for people to get used to PVP, they could just add a no-reward Duty Support feature to it with AI controlled NPCs, and there you could go solo or with your premade coach.

I think AI would always give bad habits. I disagree with that.

[RedAkihabara]

I think AI would always give bad habits. I disagree with that.

I think it depends to be honest, it's a good way to get started atleast.

[Raikai]

I think it depends to be honest, it's a good way to get started atleast.

It also depends on how the AI is programmed. But I agree that even a non-optimal AI behavior is better than nothing for a start when it comes to people with absolute zero PVP experience.

The boon here is teaching the players more like the dynamics of PVP (e.g. proper Guard timing) rather than micro-analyzing behaviors.

[Bureda]

Pre-made in casuals is fine. It should have been there since day 1.

Stop being weird about it. Make some friends, que up. You can easily spark a random conversation and get yourself some casual partners.

What a silly thing to complain about when there is so much worse things to point out.

[MogHunter]

Christ, people can't do math. Lets assume global avarage winrate is 50%. It's not, baceuse if you dc out of a winning game, you lose. Lets ignore that.

Lets look at frontlines. We divide people in to two groups. Me and everyone else. My winrate is slightly above 50. That means everyone elses avarage must be <50%.
That is a mathematical fact. If we axcept that avarage is 50%.

Strong premades have high winrate, everyone else have compined <50% winrate.

Groups A, B and C make no sense. Only if you group matches, not people. ANYONE who has played more than 10 matches in frontlines or rw has played against premades, so they are part group B partly. In rw there are matches monstly only during mog event, and then there are mayby 1 or 2 days a week, when there are no premares stomping. In frontlines i can't tell how offen there are premades, but would guess atleast 20%. Premades haven't been a problem in cc in the past.

As i said, group C is a magical group of casuals who have never played against premades, and their avarage winrate would be 50%. But in ff14 there are two types of pvp players, group A and group B+C.

[Raikai]

Pre-made in casuals is fine. It should have been there since day 1.

Stop being weird about it. Make some friends, que up. You can easily spark a random conversation and get yourself some casual partners.

What a silly thing to complain about when there is so much worse things to point out.

Nobody should be forced to find a premade just to compensate the fact that they can be randomly put against other premades. This is not being weird, is just a matter of fair play. And people queue solo in games for a number of reasons.

[MayuAmakura]

I don't mind premades but what I mind is having to play against same people over and over again because this game mode is dead. That is what sucks.