Gaius and the two Ascian. Dawntrail/8.0 Spoiler

[Cleretic]

Emmerololth, Nabriales, and Igeyorhm all could have been re-risen by the time Emet-Selch and Elidibus died, and Emmerololth appears in a scene that takes place after her retroactively specified time of death.

There's also a scene after Nabriales dies when they act like him dying was unprecedented... despite Emmerololth dying, according to later canon, before he did.

I think we sorta have to call that one a wash, honestly. Especially because Emmerololth died in the events leading to Eureka, and if there's one part of the game's lore that the developers are weirdly attached to, it's Eureka; I genuinely feel like if they're picking one of these two to hold to, Eureka lore takes precedence over what was incidentally implied in Ascian cutscenes that the developers wrote while they were desperately throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.


As to whether or not Gaius successfully killed those Ascians, we're deliberately left inconclusive, so I think the intention was 'they're dead unless the writers eventually want two more Ascians in the wings'. I wouldn't expect the 7.3 Ascian to be either of those, simply because it makes sense to hit the two complete unknowns before the writers get so desperate to have to go back on what might be previously-established kills.

Personally, I hope we only have two left. The storytelling potential in Gaius successfully killing two Ascians is far more interesting to me than having to fight two more Ascians ourselves. Honestly, I'm disappointed we're already going back into 'pick off the spares' instead of letting newer villains establish themselves.

[Anonymoose]

The storytelling potential in Gaius successfully killing two Ascians is far more interesting to me than having to fight two more Ascians ourselves.

This is where I'm at, as well. Seeing as the Garlean expansion was scrapped, Gaius's character arc was kneecapped (again) and then Endwalker was so condensed of a rush to the finish line that there wasn't even time to include Midgardsormr, never mind Gaius.

I fully envisioned him sacrificing himself taking out an overlord in the capstone arc to create a path for overthrowing the beings that pit us against each other and threatened our world in the first place, cementing his pseudo-atonement / vengeance.

It's cool to hear that he rallied the defense of Werlyt, at least, but maybe the story is better served just letting him keep those kills if we're gonna skip everything else.



[half-snarky] ...That or throw the "give an overlord a pyrrhic victory" scene onto my Second Capstone Wishlist with Midgardsormr and Ultima Prime somehow connected to the Presence of Silvertear Lake. I'll tell you what, we can claim Deudalaphon was taken out but Altima escaped him until then, just for the fun of linking Altima / Ultima somehow down the line...

[Pimsan20]

This is where I'm at, as well. Seeing as the Garlean expansion was scrapped, Gaius's character arc was kneecapped (again) and then Endwalker was so condensed of a rush to the finish line that there wasn't even time to include Midgardsormr, never mind Gaius.

I fully envisioned him sacrificing himself taking out an overlord in the capstone arc to create a path for overthrowing the beings that pit us against each other and threatened our world in the first place, cementing his pseudo-atonement / vengeance.

It's cool to hear that he rallied the defense of Werlyt, at least, but maybe the story is better served just letting him keep those kills if we're gonna skip everything else.



[half-snarky] ...That or throw the "give an overlord a pyrrhic victory" scene onto my Second Capstone Wishlist with Midgardsormr and Ultima Prime somehow connected to the Presence of Silvertear Lake. I'll tell you what, we can claim Deudalaphon was taken out but Altima escaped him until then, just for the fun of linking Altima / Ultima somehow down the line...

Would be cool if we got an Garlean Expansion. We still don't know what happen to the other legion, so if they will use them with ascians. It could help clear out some stuff that we're missing.

[Cleretic]

Would be cool if we got an Garlean Expansion. We still don't know what happen to the other legion, so if they will use them with ascians. It could help clear out some stuff that we're missing.

I actually think an Ilsabard expansion (I don't think it would rightly be a Garlean expansion, those guys fell apart and are no longer the major power they were) is the exact situation where we should find out he definitely did kill those Ascians. I'm picturing a big part of the expansion being finding out what those Ascians were actually doing, what their plan was, and what people are doing with the remains; seeing opportunists pick over the corpse of an Ascian apocalypse plan and trying to use it to their advantage. I'd findthat far more interesting than the two should-be-deads turning up and going 'now, where were we?'


All this said, I have been reminded of an idea that I've realized would be the genuine most interesting way to take the 7.3 reveal: what if it's Travanchet? It being the only black-masked Ascian worth a name would actually be a properly new and interesting idea, while still being a 'congratulations for remembering things'-level pull--and one that would have a weird connection to the Ninth, given he was involved in the Alexander story. And instead of descending into the same speculation about the same Ascians as always, with the same background and previous plan, we'd instead be forced to think about what the largely faceless black-maskers like Travanchet would've wanted or been promised out of that whole deal, and what they might want for themselves now that the doomsday cult has collapsed.

EDIT: Plus, if the thing people want is more new Ascian content, bringing in the black-maskers is an endless new supply! We're here arguing on if there are two, four or five red-maskers left, but we have no idea how many black-maskers there were!

[Pimsan20]

I actually think an Ilsabard expansion (I don't think it would rightly be a Garlean expansion, those guys fell apart and are no longer the major power they were) is the exact situation where we should find out he definitely did kill those Ascians. I'm picturing a big part of the expansion being finding out what those Ascians were actually doing, what their plan was, and what people are doing with the remains; seeing opportunists pick over the corpse of an Ascian apocalypse plan and trying to use it to their advantage. I'd findthat far more interesting than the two should-be-deads turning up and going 'now, where were we?'


All this said, I have been reminded of an idea that I've realized would be the genuine most interesting way to take the 7.3 reveal: what if it's Travanchet? It being the only black-masked Ascian worth a name would actually be a properly new and interesting idea, while still being a 'congratulations for remembering things'-level pull--and one that would have a weird connection to the Ninth, given he was involved in the Alexander story. And instead of descending into the same speculation about the same Ascians as always, with the same background and previous plan, we'd instead be forced to think about what the largely faceless black-maskers like Travanchet would've wanted or been promised out of that whole deal, and what they might want for themselves now that the doomsday cult has collapsed.

EDIT: Plus, if the thing people want is more new Ascian content, bringing in the black-maskers is an endless new supply! We're here arguing on if there are two, four or five red-maskers left, but we have no idea how many black-maskers there were!

There is some logic in your theory. Travanchet does seem a little sus, now that I think about it. He might be one of the Ascians you mentioned.