Gaius and the two Ascian. Dawntrail/8.0 Spoiler

[Pimsan20]

So with 8.0 is coming up. We need to ask what happen to Deudalaphon and Altima? We know that Gaius fought and defeated them, but we don't know how he did it since killing an ascian is easier said then done. I hope that in 8.0 or in 7.4 we finally learn what happen to the two of them and if they are still alive or not.

It is also a good reason for Gaius to join us in 8.0 with the remaining ascians.

[Raikai]

So with 8.0 is coming up. We need to ask what happen to Deudalaphon and Altima? We know that Gaius fought and defeated them, but we don't know how he did it since killing an ascian is easier said then done. I hope that in 8.0 or in 7.4 we finally learn what happen to the two of them and if they are still alive or not.

It is also a good reason for Gaius to join us in 8.0 with the remaining ascians.

I wonder if Gaius is aware (or was, maybe he was updated offscreen) that Ascians aren't that simple to defeat.

Regardless, I'm glad they're exploring the remaining Ascians to an extent. It would be interesting to see them engaging in a personal agenda, plus I feel it would be a major plot hole if they went by completely forgotten.

[Pimsan20]

I wonder if Gaius is aware (or was, maybe he was updated offscreen) that Ascians aren't that simple to defeat.

Regardless, I'm glad they're exploring the remaining Ascians to an extent. It would be interesting to see them engaging in a personal agenda, plus I feel it would be a major plot hole if they went by completely forgotten.

I think that a lot of people are bother by that fact. Even i wonder what really happen to them. And if Gaius would also come to find the remaining ascian to be sure that some of them have chance for the better or not.

[MikkoAkure]

Besides Deudalaphon and Altima, whose masks Gaius had, there's also Halmarut and Pashtarot.

And regarding those first two, Yoshi-P had this to say about them from a QA taken after 6.0:

Perhaps a few of the sundered Ascians are still around, though it’s unclear whether they would be on the Source or one of the Reflections.

The masks Gaius carries around once belonged to Altima and Deudalaphon. However, Gaius simply had their masks, and whether or not he truly vanquished them has yet to be clarified. A point you may want to consider in your theories is what it takes to vanquish an Ascian.

[Anonymoose]

At the time, I thought they were just trying to rush two more Ascians off-stage. They seemed to be trying to hurry that along even before that. But then Yoshida put them back on the table. Maybe. Kind of.

It remains funny to me that we really have no idea how many are left.

Pashtarot and Halmarut unmentioned.
Altima and Deudalaphon maybe vanquished, maybe not.
Mitron speculates that they might have found another Mitron while he was Eden (but they don't appear to have risen another Loghrif so maybe not.)
Emmerololth, Nabriales, and Igeyorhm all could have been re-risen by the time Emet-Selch and Elidibus died, and Emmerololth appears in a scene that takes place after her retroactively specified time of death.
The number of Ascians in the 2.0/2.3 scenes still doesn't make sense.

SE probably thinks they're down to 2 ~ 4, but can we really be sure we're even half done?

I laugh about that a lot.

[MikkoAkure]

SE probably thinks they're down to 2 ~ 4, but can we really be sure we're even half done?.

And that's not even bringing up the black-masked Ascians of the lower orders with the tarot suit names.

I think the last time we saw them was HW.

[Pimsan20]

At the time, I thought they were just trying to rush two more Ascians off-stage. They seemed to be trying to hurry that along even before that. But then Yoshida put them back on the table. Maybe. Kind of.

It remains funny to me that we really have no idea how many are left.

Pashtarot and Halmarut unmentioned.
Altima and Deudalaphon maybe vanquished, maybe not.
Mitron speculates that they might have found another Mitron while he was Eden (but they don't appear to have risen another Loghrif so maybe not.)
Emmerololth, Nabriales, and Igeyorhm all could have been re-risen by the time Emet-Selch and Elidibus died, and Emmerololth appears in a scene that takes place after her retroactively specified time of death.
The number of Ascians in the 2.0/2.3 scenes still doesn't make sense.

SE probably thinks they're down to 2 ~ 4, but can we really be sure we're even half done?

I laugh about that a lot.

Either way, it is nice to see what the remaining ascians are doing. Although i suspect that either one of them have a sponsor since Zodairk is gone now. Without him and the unsundered, it would be a perfect moment for a being not from Etheirys or from the XIV universe.

[Cleretic]

Emmerololth, Nabriales, and Igeyorhm all could have been re-risen by the time Emet-Selch and Elidibus died, and Emmerololth appears in a scene that takes place after her retroactively specified time of death.

There's also a scene after Nabriales dies when they act like him dying was unprecedented... despite Emmerololth dying, according to later canon, before he did.

I think we sorta have to call that one a wash, honestly. Especially because Emmerololth died in the events leading to Eureka, and if there's one part of the game's lore that the developers are weirdly attached to, it's Eureka; I genuinely feel like if they're picking one of these two to hold to, Eureka lore takes precedence over what was incidentally implied in Ascian cutscenes that the developers wrote while they were desperately throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.


As to whether or not Gaius successfully killed those Ascians, we're deliberately left inconclusive, so I think the intention was 'they're dead unless the writers eventually want two more Ascians in the wings'. I wouldn't expect the 7.3 Ascian to be either of those, simply because it makes sense to hit the two complete unknowns before the writers get so desperate to have to go back on what might be previously-established kills.

Personally, I hope we only have two left. The storytelling potential in Gaius successfully killing two Ascians is far more interesting to me than having to fight two more Ascians ourselves. Honestly, I'm disappointed we're already going back into 'pick off the spares' instead of letting newer villains establish themselves.

[Anonymoose]

The storytelling potential in Gaius successfully killing two Ascians is far more interesting to me than having to fight two more Ascians ourselves.

This is where I'm at, as well. Seeing as the Garlean expansion was scrapped, Gaius's character arc was kneecapped (again) and then Endwalker was so condensed of a rush to the finish line that there wasn't even time to include Midgardsormr, never mind Gaius.

I fully envisioned him sacrificing himself taking out an overlord in the capstone arc to create a path for overthrowing the beings that pit us against each other and threatened our world in the first place, cementing his pseudo-atonement / vengeance.

It's cool to hear that he rallied the defense of Werlyt, at least, but maybe the story is better served just letting him keep those kills if we're gonna skip everything else.



[half-snarky] ...That or throw the "give an overlord a pyrrhic victory" scene onto my Second Capstone Wishlist with Midgardsormr and Ultima Prime somehow connected to the Presence of Silvertear Lake. I'll tell you what, we can claim Deudalaphon was taken out but Altima escaped him until then, just for the fun of linking Altima / Ultima somehow down the line...

[Pimsan20]

This is where I'm at, as well. Seeing as the Garlean expansion was scrapped, Gaius's character arc was kneecapped (again) and then Endwalker was so condensed of a rush to the finish line that there wasn't even time to include Midgardsormr, never mind Gaius.

I fully envisioned him sacrificing himself taking out an overlord in the capstone arc to create a path for overthrowing the beings that pit us against each other and threatened our world in the first place, cementing his pseudo-atonement / vengeance.

It's cool to hear that he rallied the defense of Werlyt, at least, but maybe the story is better served just letting him keep those kills if we're gonna skip everything else.



[half-snarky] ...That or throw the "give an overlord a pyrrhic victory" scene onto my Second Capstone Wishlist with Midgardsormr and Ultima Prime somehow connected to the Presence of Silvertear Lake. I'll tell you what, we can claim Deudalaphon was taken out but Altima escaped him until then, just for the fun of linking Altima / Ultima somehow down the line...

Would be cool if we got an Garlean Expansion. We still don't know what happen to the other legion, so if they will use them with ascians. It could help clear out some stuff that we're missing.