I wish the game would focus on being for medcore players more.

[Bryson]

What are you talking about? In what world are savage and ultimate the 'baseline'?

it seems arbitrary to reduce all of DT to dungeons and trials? but even if you did do that, that doesn't change the fact that the tier is easier and fru is easier than dsr and top.

more people clearing endgame relative to previous expansions suggests to me, dt is easier... if it were harder, the clear rates would reflect that.

[AmiableApkallu]

it seems arbitrary to reduce all of DT to dungeons and trials?

The MSQ defines an expansion and its patches. Savages and Ultimates are merely small extras for people who want something a little more.

[Bryson]

The MSQ defines an expansion and its patches. Savages and Ultimates are merely small extras for people who want something a little more.

defines it for msq andies maybe.. there's more to the game than fetch quests and logging of until the next series of fetch quests are released 19 weeks later. you have a very reductive take on what an expansion consists of.

[boigerking]

defines it for msq andies maybe.. there's more to the game than fetch quests and logging of until the next series of fetch quests are released 19 weeks later. you have a very reductive take on what an expansion consists of.

There's more to the game than doing just Savage and Ultimate raids as well. Even if more people have cleared this content, that's still only less than 15% of the playerbase.

[Bryson]

There's more to the game than doing just Savage and Ultimate raids as well. Even if more people have cleared this content, that's still only less than 15% of the playerbase.

The only "playerbase" metric that remotely matters is active players (luckybancho census).

People should care less about what strangers are and aren't doing, and more about how they have fun.

[Valence]

it seems arbitrary to reduce all of DT to dungeons and trials? but even if you did do that, that doesn't change the fact that the tier is easier and fru is easier than dsr and top.

more people clearing endgame relative to previous expansions suggests to me, dt is easier... if it were harder, the clear rates would reflect that.

Well unless I'm wrong the thread was made by someone looking for more "midcore", according to how they'd define it, something that doesn't require the same amount of preparation and effort and homework with raidplans than extreme/savage/ultimate, yet offers enough challenge that it doesn't turn into a snoozefest like the baseline (msq, dungeons etc). We've in fact have had this multiple times in the game's history, like CLL or Dalriada. That's why I specifically replied on the baseline when everything at that level has clearly gone up in difficulty, especially at specific points in expansions: SB into SHB that saw a sudden increase at the encounter level (notably DDR) to make up for the annihilation of job complexity, and EW into DT (faster pace, more visual cues, etc). I don't know why we're bringing up savage+.

But if we're speaking about savage, I've found Arcadion savage a lot harder than anything we've had previously (with the exception of EW ultimates and criterions, and superchain theory), but I know that's just me and I'm not a majority among raiders on that. I just deal extremely poorly with that kind of design.