DRK feels super squish in comparison to the other tanks

[Reginald_Cain]

I never said the upgraded tbn should heal but should give blood price which restores mana upon being hit.

[Oizen]

You seem confused, Why would anyone need to hire you to prove the fact that YOU want to prove?

I mean you were just acting like there is no benefit to TBN's 15s CD, I proved you wrong and you acted like it didnt matter.
So I was asking if you want even more evidence of the 15s CD of TBN being a benefit of the skill.
Because it is.

Fact is Dark Knight has been the most complained tank design by the player since 5.0 and I love the fact that THE WORLD FIRST HEALER shoved the fact that the living dead suck on your face and you can't say otherwise anymore.

What? Why are you acting like I ever claimed otherwise? It WAS shit. But I dont know how to tell you this but 6.1 was over 3 years ago. It is no longer shit.
It has tangible upsides of being the only invuln that doesn't really need to be timed tightly, its the only invlun that can potentially be a net gain in resources, and its the only invuln with failstates, something I think this game needs MORE of not less.
Its not the strongest invuln, nor does it need to be. It has its benefits and is pretty functional and rewarding to use.

I like what they did with it a lot, the only issue is they took way too long to do it.

There is something funny about the egotistic and self-centered handful of player base got slapped by the alpha.
In the 5.0 World First, DRK has been chosen because it is the only tank that deal dps just as much as GNB but TBN is far stronger which is NO LONGER THE CASE.

Most of Endwalker featured this balance and I'm inclined to agree with it. GNB and DRK are very close in DPS with GNB edging it out slightly. In my honest opinion, the only way to balance the current tanks by DPS should be GNB > DRK >> WAR > PLD
The difference is GNB is a much stricter job and the balancing act you have to play to keep all your cool downs aligned, if you mess up even once DRK is going to be better in DPS, its just a much more flexible job.
Infact GNB optimization tends to take so long that I think people would rather just bring DRK over it for its free more immediate damage.
DRK is also generally prefered because it plays into downtime phases so well, while GNB cries tears of blood in downtime as gnashing fang drifts further and further into the sun.

All this time you're just trying to say that only a handful of end game contents matter and the rest is no problem because it is something the casual enjoy not you

Not at all, of course all content matters for the playability of a job. I just think Dark Knight is completely functional and fine in it.
I dont think making DRK the best tank in low end content is a good idea, because then it just be the best tank overall in all content. It doesn't need that niche, especially when its already more than functional in normal content. You just have to actually press your buttons.

But when WAR doing no healer Ultimate Clear you think it is only because small group of hardcore skilled godly player so it don't prove how the job is op.

I feel like there's a core misunderstanding here. WAR is not the tank replacing healers, I suggest you actually watch the vods rather than headline read and make assumptions.

I'll grab them for you,
Here's FRU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uvYcjbGkYo
Their tank comp is: PLD, PLD, PLD, PLD
TOP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k65bhdogQKw
Their tank comp is: PLD, PLD, WAR

I recall a vod existed at one point of P12S also being cleared healerless, its comp also was PLD stacking. WAR shows up now and then but its never the central point.
Do not misunderstand me, WAR's healing tools are strong, but WAR really can't replace healers.
It requires a targetable enemy to heal someone else, Nascent Flash doesn't work otherwise. It flat out just doesn't offer the mitigation to survive things, while PLD does with Cover, Passage, and can even spot heal people in a pinch with Clemency. and in this case, yes I do believe these are just incredibly skilled players pushing Paladin to its limits, as well as highly skilled players on supportive DPS jobs that can pick up the slack.

Getting proud by polishing a turd didn't make you a badass it reflect your intelligence and reveal your standard.

I mean being blatantly wrong and spreading misinformation is a worse look I think.
If you have problems with DRK's design, sure. I do too actually.

Dark Knight's core issues right now are its filler is boring as fuck, Delirium is way too similar to Inner Release, and its overly centralized to the 2m Meta.
Its defensive kit really isn't a problem. Infact I honestly truly think its the only tank that has a well designed defensive kit that expects thought of the player rather than mash on CD.

[The_User]

I mean you were just acting like there is no benefit to TBN's 15s CD, I proved you wrong and you acted like it didnt matter.
So I was asking if you want even more evidence of the 15s CD of TBN being a benefit of the skill.
Because it is.

Benefit in a few end game contents? I've ready told you it is not justified.

What? Why are you acting like I ever claimed otherwise? It WAS shit. But I dont know how to tell you this but 6.1 was over 3 years ago. It is no longer shit.
It has tangible upsides of being the only invuln that doesn't really need to be timed tightly, its the only invlun that can potentially be a net gain in resources, and its the only invuln with failstates, something I think this game needs MORE of not less.
Its not the strongest invuln, nor does it need to be. It has its benefits and is pretty functional and rewarding to use.

If it don't change, to day I would be seeing you says it is skill issue.

Not at all, of course all content matters for the playability of a job. I just think Dark Knight is completely functional and fine in it.
I dont think making DRK the best tank in low end content is a good idea, because then it just be the best tank overall in all content. It doesn't need that niche, especially when its already more than functional in normal content. You just have to actually press your buttons.

If it matter then why can't DRK get improvement at lower level? It is not even the best in high end right now and nobody said it need to be the best they just don't like to carry all these burden so you guy can be happy playing high end. I'm tired of low standard.

I feel like there's a core misunderstanding here. WAR is not the tank replacing healers, I suggest you actually watch the vods rather than headline read and make assumptions.

I'll grab them for you,
Here's FRU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uvYcjbGkYo
Their tank comp is: PLD, PLD, PLD, PLD
TOP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k65bhdogQKw
Their tank comp is: PLD, PLD, WAR

I recall a vod existed at one point of P12S also being cleared healerless, its comp also was PLD stacking. WAR shows up now and then but its never the central point.
Do not misunderstand me, WAR's healing tools are strong, but WAR really can't replace healers.
It requires a targetable enemy to heal someone else, Nascent Flash doesn't work otherwise. It flat out just doesn't offer the mitigation to survive things, while PLD does with Cover, Passage, and can even spot heal people in a pinch with Clemency. and in this case, yes I do believe these are just incredibly skilled players pushing Paladin to its limits, as well as highly skilled players on supportive DPS jobs that can pick up the slack.

WAR have been doing something extraordinary since stormblood. Not because player is skilled but WAR's tool allow them to. You want to replace WAR in all those ultimates with DRK to see if a Skill is that really great that it can make it possible without OP job?

I mean being blatantly wrong and spreading misinformation is a worse look I think.
If you have problems with DRK's design, sure. I do too actually.

Dark Knight's core issues right now are its filler is boring as fuck, Delirium is way too similar to Inner Release, and its overly centralized to the 2m Meta.
Its defensive kit really isn't a problem. Infact I honestly truly think its the only tank that has a well designed defensive kit that expects thought of the player rather than mash on CD.

Like what? an invul and a short cd that need a giant sign and a megaphone to tell everyone please don't accidentally prevent it from active? or a relic form era ago that is now 10% and 30s away from being a copy of rampart? should I be happy that almost all of my healing is shoved to LD so I can keep it from killing me in place of my enemy?

[Supersnow845]

What is it lacking in lower end content? What do you want from it that it doesn’t have?

Because if your point starts and ends at “I want it to be a one man immortal army” like the others then that circles back to my point from the last page, have you ever considered that DRK is the one in the correct place and the other three are just ridiculously overtuned

[The_User]

I've been asking for LD to lose it absurd heal and get rid of the walking dead since it rework. Dark Mind being a rampart clone and praised by high end raider who would kept use it to as an excuse to say that DRK is fine upset me. TBN being the only choice and getting treated as a skill check make me want to vomit. I'm upset with people trying to defense these poorly design kit. Oh and don't get me start with the enhanced unmend.


People need to stop defense DRK kit because dev somehow make it work in high end because it is one of the reasons preventing DRK from evolve.

[Supersnow845]

Then explain what you want

Like “dark mind is his a rampart clone that people only praise because it works in high end”

Okay but working in high end doesn’t mean it doesn’t work in low end content. TBN being a check of skill is how it’s always functioned, like what do you even want out of TBN if it’s not how it’s literally always functioned

If your point is centring oh the entire collective design of DRK as a class is and hollow with boring filler and mismatched unconnected burst then you’ll probably find most people agree with you. But that has next to nothing to do with how tanky DRK is which is the original point of this post which is why people are confused about why you are coming in and going “I don’t care how you explain it’s tankiness it just feels bad” as if that’s remotely the same thing

[Oizen]

I've been asking for LD to lose it absurd heal and get rid of the walking dead since it rework. Dark Mind being a rampart clone and praised by high end raider who would kept use it to as an excuse to say that DRK is fine upset me. TBN being the only choice and getting treated as a skill check make me want to vomit. I'm upset with people trying to defense these poorly design kit. Oh and don't get me start with the enhanced unmend.
People need to stop defense DRK kit because dev somehow make it work in high end because it is one of the reasons preventing DRK from evolve.

So you want LD to be Holmgang? You seem like you REALLY envy what WAR does, have you considered just playing WAR rather than asking for DRK to be made even more similar to WAR?
I dont play Dark Knight to play Warrior, I play Dark Knight to play Dark Knight. Dark Knight has its own niches and advantages to Warrior, quite a few actually, you just refuse to acknowledge them or even play into them.

WAR have been doing something extraordinary since stormblood. Not because player is skilled but WAR's tool allow them to. You want to replace WAR in all those ultimates with DRK to see if a Skill is that really great that it can make it possible without OP job?

Seeing as you didn't even bother to read what was written I don't really see a reason to respond to anything else you're saying. I will not respond to anything else here but to finalize this, There were 0 Warriors in the FRU healerless clear. The job isn't doing what you think its doing.
For the love of god, just play WAR if you want WAR.

[Mesarthim]

I've been asking for LD to lose it absurd heal and get rid of the walking dead since it rework.

So your idea of "fixing" Living Dead is to turn it into holmgang with a marginally longer cooldown? Yeah no. We had to wait long enough for Living Dead to get the facelift it needed for almost its entire lifespan. Abyssal Drain also took long enough to not be trash after they turned it into an ability and THEN merged it with carve and spit's cooldown.

The points most people can agree on are:

1. Boring filler. Most other tanks have 30s type skills to use between 1-2-3 combo. DRK does not (60s, 90s).
2. Delirium is inner release (and was merged with blood weapon thus causing 1200 mp to be lost).
3. Enhanced Unmend lol.

Beyond that I'd keep my expectations within reality.

[The_User]

Then explain what you want

Like “dark mind is his a rampart clone that people only praise because it works in high end”

Okay but working in high end doesn’t mean it doesn’t work in low end content. TBN being a check of skill is how it’s always functioned, like what do you even want out of TBN if it’s not how it’s literally always functioned

If your point is centring oh the entire collective design of DRK as a class is and hollow with boring filler and mismatched unconnected burst then you’ll probably find most people agree with you. But that has next to nothing to do with how tanky DRK is which is the original point of this post which is why people are confused about why you are coming in and going “I don’t care how you explain it’s tankiness it just feels bad” as if that’s remotely the same thing

It worked in lower contents but just a weaker rampart that I'm supposed to be impressed because people keep praise it in high end and would defense it merely 10% mit. Really, having a weak rampart and a weakest short cd have a lot to do with how not "tanky DRK" is. The situation about TBN being a skill check despite having no alternative and no real decision making is too LAME, more so when people keep talking other DRK to except that.

So you want LD to be Holmgang? You seem like you REALLY envy what WAR does, have you considered just playing WAR rather than asking for DRK to be made even more similar to WAR?
I dont play Dark Knight to play Warrior, I play Dark Knight to play Dark Knight. Dark Knight has its own niches and advantages to Warrior, quite a few actually, you just refuse to acknowledge them or even play into them.


Seeing as you didn't even bother to read what was written I don't really see a reason to respond to anything else you're saying. I will not respond to anything else here but to finalize this, There were 0 Warriors in the FRU healerless clear. The job isn't doing what you think its doing.
For the love of god, just play WAR if you want WAR.

Show me where I written that I wanted it to be Holmgang? I love the fact that you're so proud to admit that YOU ARE IN WAR MODE every time you use LD!! Which is why I hated that.


I read and quote all of what you said and it isn't convincing one bit.


So thank you for confirmed what I've said that you're just love to polish a turd rather than calling out what it is.


OH YEAH NOT LIKE IT EVER DID CLEAR ANY ULTIMATE WITH NO HEALER EVER. POINT is WAR kit is good enough it allow WAR to do all that. Yes there are PLD as well but we're in the aftermath of discussion WAR mit vs DRK mit [PLD isn't the highlight so I don't mention them] which half way someone said Bloodwhetting mitigated less than TBN which isn't true, as if WAR is fragile than DRK. Then the goal post moved to "Hey you can cast 2 TBN when WAR can cast 1 Bloodwhetting so it is better" Oh for g sake. Like if someone can find a niche for these ability then it is justify to stay at it is.

So your idea of "fixing" Living Dead is to turn it into holmgang with a marginally longer cooldown? Yeah no. We had to wait long enough for Living Dead to get the facelift it needed for almost its entire lifespan. Abyssal Drain also took long enough to not be trash after they turned it into an ability and THEN merged it with carve and spit's cooldown.

The points most people can agree on are:

1. Boring filler. Most other tanks have 30s type skills to use between 1-2-3 combo. DRK does not (60s, 90s).
2. Delirium is inner release (and was merged with blood weapon thus causing 1200 mp to be lost).
3. Enhanced Unmend lol.

Beyond that I'd keep my expectations within reality.

Read what I said about LD above

[Supersnow845]

It worked in lower contents but just a weaker rampart that I'm supposed to be impressed because people keep praise it in high end and would defense it merely 10% mit. Really, having a weak rampart and a weakest short cd have a lot to do with how not "tanky DRK" is. The situation about TBN being a skill check despite having no alternative and no real decision making is too LAME, more so when people keep talking other DRK to except that.

How can you accuse it of being a weaker rampart compared to the others rampart while ignoring it’s literally a free mitigation on TOP of also still having rampart

Like dark mind is just straight up a CD that none of the others have equivalents to and it’s 20% in magic.

What does a skill have to do in low end content for it to ‘impress’ you