Premades Don’t Break Frontline — They Broke the Illusion of the Horde Stampede

[MayuAmakura]

It's a lot easier to win if you have coordinated team. Someone who spams emote or who to target or flags. Yes those things are what brings victory and mostly those happen when premades spam.

[Chiyeko]

Then again knowing SE they won't look into this matter or take in suggestion base on ideas made by the NA and EU cause they don't want harsh harsh criticism. All in all, just another "We're sorry we will do better promise,"
track recorder of not improving pvp was good but didn't evolve. Like I said before frontline should have a solo queue like crystal conflict with rank, servr is bigger and connect, people can server hop on any other server in there regions. Just a feeling it will be to late for changes and damage can't be fix beyond repair or community with frontline or 72 person pvp. Maybe reduce it to 24 person and make the map a lot smaller. Then again I'm just throwing some suggestion here.

[Trevski]

Right back at you. You shouldn't get to force everyone else to play in premades or resort to horde mentality as the only way to compete in the arms race you're perpetuating. Your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that you are not responsible for your actions or the environment you've created.

What exactly would be your ideal competitive game mode?

The only thing Divinemights is saying is that the better team is the one that tends to perform better as a team (ie, cooperation and communication.)


Running around in an amorphous blob with no real focus on targets, direction, etc. is less effective than a team that has a clear game plan, leadership, etc.

Premades are being used as a boogeyman from players who don't like getting stomped on. This is usually because of a lack of gamesense, map awareness, poor fundamentals, etc. combined with an unwillingness to learn, which boils down to the conclusion Divinemights made:

“I’m used to a low-effort playstyle where I feel successful. Premades threaten that illusion.”

People just want the rewards and just want it to be a cakewalk.

What's amazing is that the biggest advantage that premades have (shotcalling/leadership) can be done by anyone who has solo queued and is willing to step up. But no one wants to do that (see again: I'm used to a low-effort playstyle) and instead get upset.

I'm assuming your ideal version of Frontlines PVP would be having all three teams locked in their respective 'big ice' section of the Shatter map and whoever licks the ice the fastest wins. If not, explain what would be your ideal.

[Exmo]

What exactly would be your ideal competitive game mode?

The only thing Divinemights is saying is that the better team is the one that tends to perform better.


Running around in an amorphous blob with no real focus on targets, direction, etc. is less effective than a team that has a clear game plan, leadership, etc.

Premades are being used as a boogeyman from players who don't like getting stomped on. This is usually because of a lack of gamesense, map awareness, poor fundamentals, etc. combined with an unwillingness to learn, which boils down to the conclusion Divinemights made:

“I’m used to a low-effort playstyle where I feel successful. Premades threaten that illusion.”

People just want the rewards and just want it to be a cakewalk.

What's amazing is that the biggest advantage that premades have (shotcalling/leadership) can be done by anyone who has solo queued and is willing to step up. But no one wants to do that (see again: I'm used to a low-effort playstyle) and instead get upset.

I'm assuming your ideal version of Frontlines PVP would be having all three teams locked in their respective 'big ice' section of the Shatter map and whoever licks the ice the fastest wins. If not, explain what would be your ideal.

I've talked about it to death, just read the thread.
Yuu don't need premades for shot calling. I see it every game.
If an organized premade is on the field, their team will probably win. It's tautological to say that's because they're "better". That's the end of the story. If the main reason you won or lost is because of 4 players in a VC, the game is broken.

[Trevski]

I've talked about it to death, just read the thread.

The only thing I've seen is 'ban premades.'

I'm asking what your ideal Frontlines experience would be, because I haven't seen you say that.

Yuu don't need premades for shot calling. I see it every game.

Exactly. The issue isn't with premades, it is the disparity of competency between teams.

If an organized premade is on the field, their team will probably win. It's tautological to say that's because they're "better". That's the end of the story. If the main reason you won or lost is because of 4 players in a VC, the game is broken.

I'm not saying that a premade makes a team better. I'm saying that the better overall team is one that cooperates, communicates, etc. better than the other 2. I'll admit I phrased my original sentence badly and will edit it. As said, 'premades' are a boogeyman/scapegoat.

The larger issue is the greater balance of things I talked about in my post: game sense (Is a player running away when they get the Chiten debuff on them or are they standing there wailing on the SAM and getting Zanked? Is a player popping Guard when Wildfire is tossed on them?), map awareness (Does the player know that the third team just broke their big ice? Does a player know that they are going to be pinched if they contest a big node?) Fundamentals (Do players know what their buttons do, how they work, etc.)

To be clear: there is NOTHING wrong with being inexperienced in any of the things I listed above. Everyone starts somewhere.

Where it becomes a problem is when players don't want to learn or, worse, not cooperate/communicate in a team game in a multiplayer game.

There are folks on here who have expressed an intense dislike for listening/cooperating with others. That isn't a game problem but a person problem.

The same thing goes with an unwillingness to learn or play the game mode. There is nothing wrong with having an expectation of people queuing up to participate and making up excuses as to why 'not trying' is okay is the issue. Even nonserious or casual games require participation, not sitting watching Netflix (or whatever.)

If the main reason you won or lost is because of 4 players in a VC, the game is broken.

You're making the assumption that you accused me of having made: that a premade is somehow an auto-win. It isn't. What is more important is a willingness for folks to work together.

The more people are actively participating/understanding things the less need there is for shotcalling and the overall impact of premades is lessened or blunted.

The solution, in my mind, is banning lethargic or disruptive gameplay, not people who are playing the game mode as intended. I tend to report players who are sandbagging (ie, saying things in chat like "I'm just gonna die" or having donuts at the end of match) and have been getting responses back from GMs.

[Exmo]

Let's agree to disagree

[Mistress_Irika]

I recently started playing again, and despite finally finding some sort of rhythm to be on I'm hardly winning games despite slowing climbing to the top regarding damage dealt. Playing a frontliner is useless since the team will ditch fights the moment a new objective has popped up. I'll just be feeding from diving straight into the fight. Playing a backliner is also useless since fights aren't decided by how much damage is done but whether the frontline can hold. I'll just be feeding from playing too aggressively and making myself a valuable target for no reason.

I would love to help solve the premade problem. However, I'm already convinced that I can't do it with the lack of team play that exist. I can't do it playing solo. Everyone zergs when needed. All folks know how to do is zerg, and even if you take away the premades the zerg will naturally exists. No one stays together as an entire party though. I can't be upset about that since it's been that way ever since I started dipping my toes into frontlines years ago. I went through one calamity, and it's still the same thing despite a different skill set. If I see a premade I'm just going to calmly back away, throw a limit break in, and hope I get any sort of assists. It's not worth going in to try and stop them. I did that back in the past as early as possible only for them to take me out first after stalling with my defensives before continuing the easy task that is snowballing. Trying this now isn't going to change a thing.

I wish 24 man frontlines were still a thing. I nearly had the premade issue solved there. I started forcing full parties to actually think on how they were going to get a win just by abusing objectives and somehow convincing my teammates to play peek-a-boo with them instead of fighting them head on. 7 people was easy to talk to. 23 is impossible to command...oh well. Some folks wanted 24 man removed. Now I just need to stop visiting the past and figure out how to apply it to 72 man.

I about to back away from conversating about premades, because the entire message I seem to get is that premading is okay if it's only pve. A few of us dealt with 8 man groups, and despite how gruesome it was a smaller chunk of that group still did decent performance wise. There's a lot that can't even deal with just 4 people. 4...I'll keep away. Everyone knows what they're doing with the changes they're asking for.

[Trevski]

Let's agree to disagree

Ah, incredibly dismissive post from someone who has expressed a dislike for effort. Totally not surprised you won't explain what your ideal FL experience is and blame everything on those dang dirty premades, lol.

I recently started playing again, and despite finally finding some sort of rhythm to be on I'm hardly winning games despite slowing climbing to the top regarding damage dealt. Playing a frontliner is useless since the team will ditch fights the moment a new objective has popped up. I'll just be feeding from diving straight into the fight. Playing a backliner is also useless since fights aren't decided by how much damage is done but whether the frontline can hold. I'll just be feeding from playing too aggressively and making myself a valuable target for no reason.

Sounds like the issue is a mixture of map awareness (getting caught out when a new obj pops) and positioning. Both are things you can work on and get better at.

[Exmo]

Ah, incredibly dismissive post from someone who has expressed a dislike for effort. Totally not surprised you won't explain what your ideal FL experience is and blame everything on those dang dirty premades, lol.

No need to be rude. I decline your demand to debate you because you are determined to misunderstand what I'm saying and you seem exhausting to talk to. Please next time take the polite hint.

[Elephantality]

If an organized premade is on the field, their team will probably win. It's tautological to say that's because they're "better". That's the end of the story. If the main reason you won or lost is because of 4 players in a VC, the game is broken.

The game isn't broken, but communication and coordination are strong. That doesn't mean it deserves to be banned. It should be encouraged more! We need more fierce competition. You and others take the mode seriously, which I respect even though I disagree with you, but I think more organization needs to happen in this region.