Critical issues that need to be addressed

[Atreus]

We don't need our full kits in older content.

Yes, we do. You're just thinking about it in absolutes. There are absolutely creative ways to scale abilities that are different than what WoW does, such as through traits.

What we do need is for them to stop neutering that content, while making class design/progression somewhat enjoyable again. If you allow us the full kits, as they stand -at the moment-, you'd be taking an already mundane experience and slapping a fast forward button on it. .. I'm not a big fan of fast forward buttons - at that point I'd rather just let people skip content entirely to get to the 'good content', or whatever.

We need both. Most content gets "neutered" because of item level caps. Item level caps need to be reduced for most pieces of content to either at or close to minimum iLv or the entire experience will remain as mundane as it always has been.

[Haru304]

Yes, we do. You're just thinking about it in absolutes. There are absolutely creative ways to scale abilities that are different than what WoW does, such as through traits.



We need both. Most content gets "neutered" because of item level caps. Item level caps need to be reduced for most pieces of content to either at or close to minimum iLv or the entire experience will remain as mundane as it always has been.

There'd be a pretty big difference between just unlocking the entirety of the kit for older content -with- and -without- checks and balances like an entire 'traits' system. As it stands, simply hitting the unlock button is not going to improve the experience. It will certainly make it quicker, but 'better'? Reduced item level caps would certainly help, but so would mechanics being re-worked, like what WoW did with some of their earlier dungeon content.

[Atreus]

There'd be a pretty big difference between just unlocking the entirety of the kit for older content -with- and -without- checks and balances like an entire 'traits' system. As it stands, simply hitting the unlock button is not going to improve the experience. It will certainly make it quicker, but 'better'? Reduced item level caps would certainly help, but so would mechanics being re-worked, like what WoW did with some of their earlier dungeon content.

I think we agree, because just flipping the switch for abilities would be terrible. It does need potency capping at different level thresholds.

[Moonlite]

I think we agree, because just flipping the switch for abilities would be terrible. It does need potency capping at different level thresholds.

I am more inclined to create the whole kit or almost whole kit by level 15. And then upgrade the abilities to new sparkly things and add maybe one new cool ability each expansion. That is if we are getting complete reworks in next expansion. You would keep the same kit but it would look more inline with the game and not having access to the level 100 move wouldn't be that bad if all the rest worked properly. SMN rework has the rotation figured for higher level but when you synch down you are missing those skills so you get a few ruins just because.

[Atreus]

I am more inclined to create the whole kit or almost whole kit by level 15. And then upgrade the abilities to new sparkly things and add maybe one new cool ability each expansion. That is if we are getting complete reworks in next expansion. You would keep the same kit but it would look more inline with the game and not having access to the level 100 move wouldn't be that bad if all the rest worked properly. SMN rework has the rotation figured for higher level but when you synch down you are missing those skills so you get a few ruins just because.

That's great with me, though would it feel like actual progression to new players? I'd want both groups to be happy.

[AmiableApkallu]

That's great with me, though would it feel like actual progression to new players? I'd want both groups to be happy.

For me, the feeling of "progression" stopped being a thing when job/class quests stopped at Lv.70. Acquiring a new or upgraded action by virtue of simply leveling up doesn't quite feel the same.

[Striker44]

Yes, we do. You're just thinking about it in absolutes. There are absolutely creative ways to scale abilities that are different than what WoW does, such as through traits.

This can only work with certain abilities, not others. There is no way to "scale" something like Benediction, whose entire existence is based on it being the "oh crud" button giving an instant-cast 100% heal. There is no way to "scale" a tank having a skill granting invulnerability. And good luck making DPS classes equal in usefulness through scaling when one has multiple AoE spells and the other doesn't have any yet.

[Atreus]

This can only work with certain abilities, not others. There is no way to "scale" something like Benediction, whose entire existence is based on it being the "oh crud" button giving an instant-cast 100% heal. There is no way to "scale" a tank having a skill granting invulnerability. And good luck making DPS classes equal in usefulness through scaling when one has multiple AoE spells and the other doesn't have any yet.

At a certain point we need to say fuck it. Again, there are creative ways to do this. People are too worried about it "becoming bad" when it already is. Full stop.

[PorxiesRCute]

This can only work with certain abilities, not others. There is no way to "scale" something like Benediction, whose entire existence is based on it being the "oh crud" button giving an instant-cast 100% heal. There is no way to "scale" a tank having a skill granting invulnerability. And good luck making DPS classes equal in usefulness through scaling when one has multiple AoE spells and the other doesn't have any yet.

Benediction is already available at level 49 and it's something like a 3-minute cooldown. How exactly would it break the game to have it available at level 16?