Viper feels incredibly boring.

[ovIm]

Keep in mind i started playing it yesterday and i know this might sound like blasphemy in the eyes of Viper mains, but it feels so incredibly boring and it feels like the job plays itself. It almost feels impossible to mess up on a rotation via single Target or aoe. And while the single target dmg is strong, it\\'s AOE damage on large pulls feel bad. I\\'m honestly thinking about switching to Pictomancer.

I said it in another thread once, the removal of Noxious Gnash has completely neutered any gameplay depth Viper has had, making it so braindead its mind numbingly boring. From my favorite class in the game to this within 4 weeks of release. That alone also shattered any trust I had in the job design team for this game.

[Cynric]

I said it in another thread once, the removal of Noxious Gnash has completely neutered any gameplay depth Viper has had, making it so braindead its mind numbingly boring. From my favorite class in the game to this within 4 weeks of release. That alone also shattered any trust I had in the job design team for this game.

Well not just that right but the change to the basic combo was also problematic too as well as the buff timer changes.

We went from choosing when to apply noxious gnash and choosing which basic combo starter to use based on whether you needed to reapply with dread fangs or could get away with waiting for Dreadwinder. Which meant you could get more or less steel fangs depending if you were trying to optimize and do a bit more damage while also managing buffs during reawaken.

To having basically permanent buffs and alternating the two combos. So them removing Noxious Gnash was like part of it but they just did an overall class simplification to it as well beyond that.

When the combos were more dynamic and buffs required management, using reawaken required some planning depending on the fight if you didn't want to lose buffs.

Then you also could argue Viper lost the only slightly poison resembling thematic it had with Noxious Gnash.

I understand why they made the buff timer changes because it could get really tight on the timing at some points, but when you add all the changes in together it just over simplified the job.

[ovIm]

Well not just that right but the change to the basic combo was also problematic too as well as the buff timer changes.

The change to the basic combo was because NG was removed, though. The removal of NG meant that the second combo starter had to do something different now. It also automatically meant that Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) lost a lot of its interaction with the rest of the kit. Really, everything you wrote in your long post, which, just to be clear I fully agree with, is the result of the removal of NG. This is the sentiment I have about the changes.

Its just the fact that the devs wanting to remove NG has completely cascaded over the entirety of Vipers kit. Does not help that people claim it still plays the same, usually those are the people that played it wrong in the first place.

[jonimated]

The change to the basic combo was because NG was removed, though. The removal of NG meant that the second combo starter had to do something different now. It also automatically meant that Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) lost a lot of its interaction with the rest of the kit. Really, everything you wrote in your long post, which, just to be clear I fully agree with, is the result of the removal of NG. This is the sentiment I have about the changes.

Its just the fact that the devs wanting to remove NG has completely cascaded over the entirety of Vipers kit. Does not help that people claim it still plays the same, usually those are the people that played it wrong in the first place.

This is pretty much it. They create a job with multiple mechanics that interact with a single debuff, only to remove the debuff but not replace the interactions with anything else. It had a cascading effect.

Pair all that with the significant increase to the buff timers making them almost completely inconsequential. They may as well not exist at all with how little you actually have to consider their existence. To think they were also considering at the time to remove the positional as well. I will never understand this simplification philosophy. The point of having meta-mechanics is to encourage player interaction outside of the main game mechanics. If the mechanics aren't going to require any interaction then why bother?

Viper may have the highest APM in the game, but it feels the slowest to play because you as the player aren't actually required to do anything at all.

[Cynric]

The change to the basic combo was because NG was removed, though. The removal of NG meant that the second combo starter had to do something different now. It also automatically meant that Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) lost a lot of its interaction with the rest of the kit. Really, everything you wrote in your long post, which, just to be clear I fully agree with, is the result of the removal of NG. This is the sentiment I have about the changes.

Its just the fact that the devs wanting to remove NG has completely cascaded over the entirety of Vipers kit. Does not help that people claim it still plays the same, usually those are the people that played it wrong in the first place.

I mean you aren't wrong that all of that was partly due to the removal of it. I just kinda wanted to show that like it was the whole scope of their changes they made that made things be how they are now and not just because they removed the debuff. They could've removed the debuff but replaced the interplay that would've been lost with something more interesting. Instead they chose the option to just make things as simple as possible which led to the class becoming boring. It's just a sad thing to me the level at which they simplified it compared to the EA version.

[AvoSturmfaust]

I said it in another thread once, the removal of Noxious Gnash has completely neutered any gameplay depth Viper has had, making it so braindead its mind numbingly boring. From my favorite class in the game to this within 4 weeks of release. That alone also shattered any trust I had in the job design team for this game.

Because you dont understand that removing NG was the best step because with the removal it ADDED DEPTH to the class, no you have some optis, which goes above the "standardplay" and possibilitys which werent even possible with NG

[Supersnow845]

Because you dont understand that removing NG was the best step because with the removal it ADDED DEPTH to the class, no you have some optis, which goes above the "standardplay" and possibilitys which werent even possible with NG

Being able to triple awaken now that you don’t have NG isn’t an optimisation. It’s just doing the easiest option available which was what NG was originally created to avoid you being able to do

Removing NG just means the class doesn’t have any way to play it wrong

[AvoSturmfaust]

Being able to triple awaken now that you don’t have NG isn’t an optimisation. It’s just doing the easiest option available which was what NG was originally created to avoid you being able to do

Removing NG just means the class doesn’t have any way to play it wrong

Im not talking about triple awakening, there is so much more, triple awakening is something which is still not really used