Overtuned MSQ 4-mans and subpar story ends 12-year journey

[BlisteringFrost]

you people are cruel. people have been bringing up these issues for a while now and the only response you can ever give is, "well sorry you're too bad at the game you've played and paid for for years, you should unsub and go play something made for idiot babies with no motor skills."

I mean..... you got to level 15. You saw your first AOE marker. Learned how to dodge it, hopefully. Not a big deal if you didn't. The next few dungeons should get the hint across right?

Now you're level 100 and..... you.... still can't stay out of an AOE marker on the floor..... 70-200+ hours later....? And 30-some odd dungeons later?

Okay I'll be nice and pretend-assume they level skipped. How'd you get to the level 100 Expert dungeons then and still not know what basic mechanics looks like? You got the 91 dungeon. The 93 dungeon. The 95 dungeon. The first trial of Dawntrail. The 97 dungeon. The 99 dungeon. The second trial. The first level 100 dungeon. The third trial....?

It's not people being cruel. It's reality. Don't be a fish complaining that water is wet.

[Jeeqbit]

you people are cruel. people have been bringing up these issues for a while now and the only response you can ever give is, "well sorry you're too bad at the game you've played and paid for for years, you should unsub and go play something made for idiot babies with no motor skills."

What do you make of this though? In this post I proved you can ignore the worst mechanics in a recent dungeon and survive all of them:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6735081

The "fast pace" is an illusion and someone can just rez you if it goes wrong or you don't want to play a tank.

[BokoToloko]

you people are cruel. people have been bringing up these issues for a while now and the only response you can ever give is, "well sorry you're too bad at the game you've played and paid for for years, you should unsub and go play something made for idiot babies with no motor skills."

Then I'll bring a better one:

If you die trying to learn a mechanic, no one cares and neither should you. You get back up, you go at the mechanic and die as many times as it takes until you catch the rythm of the fight. Deaths are inconsequential. The things that matter most are getting the "Duty Complete" to appear on the screen, trying to play to the best of your ability and be willing to learn, whether it is from your own mistakes and people's advice.

If you get frustrated, go outside and breath some fresh air. If you think it's impossible, you're skipping one of the previous tenets. You think "hardcore" raiders clear Savage because they're just that good? Wrong. They clear raids because they practice and die as many time as it takes until they learn the fights well enough to clear them. And if it works for Savage, it definitely will work for a MSQ dungeon.

[Altina_Orion]

Then I'll bring a better one:

If you die trying to learn a mechanic, no one cares and neither should you. You get back up, you go at the mechanic and die as many times as it takes until you catch the rythm of the fight. Deaths are inconsequential. The things that matter most are getting the "Duty Complete" to appear on the screen, trying to play to the best of your ability and be willing to learn, whether it is from your own mistakes and people's advice.

If you get frustrated, go outside and breath some fresh air. If you think it's impossible, you're skipping one of the previous tenets. You think "hardcore" raiders clear Savage because they're just that good? Wrong. They clear raids because they practice and die as many time as it takes until they learn the fights well enough to clear them. And if it works for Savage, it definitely will work for a MSQ dungeon.

Yep, my savage group has been raiding the new raid since week one and we only cleared the 4th savage a few weeks ago. 6 hours of dying over and over again every single week until we cleared. Nobody complained it was too hard. We enjoyed the fights and eachothers company and were happy when we finally overcame the challenge.

To be clear, this is a 15 week clear - ~90 hours to complete it.

[Mana_Azir]

I'd love it if the dungeons weren't tied to the story and the gameplay part was just done with solo instances.

That didnt workout in the past cos folks would either ignore it/never unlock it or those joined in late never knew they existed. Whens the last time you got nevereap on your roulettes?

[jonimated]

There's a lot of words being thrown around in this thread, but I really have to ask. Has anyone so far actually been incapable of completing a dungeon in Dawntrail? Has anyone had progress come to a dead stop because they simply cannot get past a duty finder boss?

I get the desire for something to be easier because you're having a hard time with it, but gatekeeping is another thing entirely. If we're going to throw around that word I need to know there is a portion of the player base who are actually being stopped in their tracks and cannot move on.

[BlisteringFrost]

There's a lot of words being thrown around in this thread, but I really have to ask. Has anyone so far actually been incapable of completing a dungeon in Dawntrail? Has anyone had progress come to a dead stop because they simply cannot get past a duty finder boss?

I get the desire for something to be easier because you're having a hard time with it, but gatekeeping is another thing entirely. If we're going to throw around that word I need to know there is a portion of the player base who are actually being stopped in their tracks and cannot move on.

Died to a handful of the bosses. Reasoned I did something wrong. Paid more attention to when I was taking damage. Figured it out. Then I beat bosses without dying.

[OlafQuintessa]

I think the 7.3 dungeon was a bit on the hard side for an MSQ duty, but only a bit.

I did it as a dps with duty support. I still don't know what I was doing wrong on the first boss (what I thought were going to be safe spots just weren't). The second boss required some practice because there's not much time to decide where is going to be safe (I also wasted a lot of time by not noticing something else I had to do - an easy mistake to make when you're so focused on avoiding damage). The third boss, I'm still not sure what the tells were supposed to be. Maybe it was obvious? I was a bit tired of it by then anyway.

Being able to do it with npcs definitely made it less stressful than having to die a lot in front of a group. There's the opportunity to learn at your own pace and you can follow the npcs if you get stuck - so in a sense there's already one way to make it easier. I can understand the second boss being a sticking point for some people. They should offer the echo or some auto-raises for that boss.

I got through in about 50-60 minutes total, which is fine in the grand scheme of things. I guess I'd figure it all out if I was going to do it again, but for people who'll only do it once for msq I think it's a bit long and confusing (like the original castrum!). I don't think msq duties should be difficult. msq is where easy content should sit, with standard tells for everything and a more cinematic feel, so you can play your part for a while then carry on and enjoy the story (or get it over with, in this case). However there should be more options that are somewhere between msq and extreme and I genuinely hope this is the void that "quantum" will fill in the long term. Or else they need to add more optional, hard mode dungeons. This is what they need to be thinking about for 8.0 if they want content for everyone to enjoy.

[FuturePastNow]

Died to a handful of the bosses. Reasoned I did something wrong. Paid more attention to when I was taking damage. Figured it out. Then I beat bosses without dying.

DT dungeon bosses that I have seen kill many many MANY people:

* Last boss of Skydeep Cenote
* First boss of Alexandria
* First boss of Tender Valley
* First boss of Strayborough
* Last boss of Yuweyawata

And all of those got me a couple times too. I would say I've definitely been flattened by dungeons more often in Dawntrail than in Endwalker or before, and that is not a bad thing

[YukioKobayashi]

Not sure how someone who played the game for 12+ years can think that a dungeon boss is overtuned?

DPS-Boss has no DPS-Check.
Tank-Boss has no real Tankbuster or mitigation checks. Silence+25s CD is enough to take less than 30% in crafted gear.
Healer-Boss has no HP and falls after it feels like 20 Glares. Enough room to cast some GCD heals if needed.
Dodging telegraphed AOE's shouldnt be an issue at lvl 100, hundreds or thousands of dungeon runs and 12 years of experience imo.

The Dungeon isnt any harder than Aurum Vale, The Vault, The Burn, Dead Ends on release to name a few.