Revelations from Patch 7.3: The Promise of Tomorrow

[TheRealQuah]

I’m still subscribing to the theory that there isn’t an Azem - that Azem is us - and we eventually time travel back to the past as the player character to do all the Azem stuff in an upcoming expansion. (Whether we then get sundered, or our memories are persevered and shot forward in time is another debate with countless solutions).

So an Azem shard might not have any memories, because that would reveal the spoiler that we are Azem. (Unless that is how they plan on revealing it). 7.3 has given us even more ways for characters to persist beyond their soul’s demise/sundering/whatever.

But what I could see happening is the leftover Ascians identifying Azem soul shards, raising one of them with false or corrupted memories, and then helping them absorb other Azem shards in an attempt to make them as powerful as our WOLs.

I’m still suspicious of Calyx. He could very well be an Azem shard. In fact, all the folk implied to be in this organization could be Azem shards. Like a little team of “we’re your worst fans” for the WOL to contend with.

I just wish 7.3 spent more time on intrigue and drama. I liked people speculating that Shale would double-cross us - and we didn’t get that. We’ve moved nowhere on the key. We’ve shown no interest in the 9th. We were in no way interested in Preservation until one of them tried to zap us to death. Why did we learn all that stuff about Krile’s parents in a Disneyland volcano, and not while exploring the creepy underbelly of Everkeep trying to get answers?

Sigh.

This tends to be what I believe as well. It explains what Azem was doing during the final days - it was us and we knew we needed to be sundered so did not interfere, which explains why someone who was meant to help everyone all the time, didn't lift a finger to stop things.

The winterer's must now know that the WoL is Azem - but not rejoined. We could be looking at a scenario where they think to beat us, they need to "become" us - find all the other shards of Azem and fuse them, then pit them against us. This could even see them finding a way to sunder us again, which would also go some way towards bringing us back from the killing gods days, if we go back to being 1/14th.

[Cleretic]

Apparently 'Winterer' is capitalized in all languages, likely meaning it's the name of their faction. So I don't think they literally have to do with the cold or winter, and instead a more metaphorical winter. To pair it with Gossan's 'thawing' comment, I think it could be fun if 8.0 took place somewhere that survived a "harsh winter," and life is now bouncing back. Meracydia perhaps...

Yeah, 'Winterer' is a funny word like that. Just form looking at the word you reflexively associate it with the season, and therefore 'snow, ice, cold', but it's not actually about that, a winterer is 'someone who goes away during the winter'. And you wouldn't exactly associate a hummingbird with snow and ice--in fact, the fact you don't is kind of the point of wintering.

[Turnintino]

We're not rid of Calyx and his uncanny face proportions yet. Boo hiss.

After multiple mentions and demonstrations of Sphene practising healing magicks, I don't understand why she is locked to DPS for duty support. It seems unquestionable that Wuk Lamat / Sphene / Krile would be the intended trio to accompany you on a trust run, and a healer/DPS skillset for Sphene would allow that to happen in any configuration, but instead I had to go as healer to allow for that setup -- and then the following cutscene kept doing camera angles where Aurelie's face was hidden behind her WHM staff.

I had exactly the same thought -- but wasn't in the mood to make this configuration work, so I can answer your next question...

Did G'raha have anything insightful to say during the dungeon if you take him?

No. He just sort of described/pondered what was going on occasionally, as everyone else does. Not in any way that offered actual perspective or insight (not that I personally expect anything more from Duty Support chatter, but his was one of those that didn't add even the bare minimum of flavor).

- Sphene didn't even visit Otis' grave with us. It's as if her own grief isn't important anymore.

This struck me as well.

And the fact that Erenville, of all people, was the one who was present only added to the strangeness for me lol.

[PorxiesRCute]

1. The idea of the WOL rejoining with other Azem shards is stupid and would be terrible writing. I kind of hope there's a future, villainous Azem shard who tries to do this so the characters can point out how sociopathic it is.

1a. The WOL going back in time to become Azem is the worst theory this fandom has. Azem did not have cat ears or lizard scales.

2. Ice is directly opposite to lightning on the elemental wheel. For all of his many, many flaws, Calyx claims to be acting in the interest of preserving life. What if this "Winterer" group is trying to restore balance to the Ninth?

[Cleretic]

This struck me as well.

And the fact that Erenville, of all people, was the one who was present only added to the strangeness for me lol.

I recognize where some people might think this feels wrong, but I feel like it's fair.

Real Sphene didn't even know Robo-Otis existed. Or Endless Otis, in fact, although she probably wouldn't have been too surprised. She's not aware of or connected to our experiences in Alexandria in 7.0, so she mourns her losses of the Alexandria she knew personally, and in private, because she doesn't know there's anyone to share them with. And I think the game takes a broad approach that there isn't anyone to share them with, because while the game as a whole sees the Endless as legitimate people that nonetheless should not exist, it also doesn't see them as being the same as the person who passed. We mainly kinda saw that in Erenville talking about Cahciua in 7.1; that the Endless Cahciua isn't Cahciua, but that his experiences with her weren't less meaningful as a result. Similarly, we didn't know the Otis that Sphene knew; we knew two different imitations.

Robo-Otis also wasn't a hugely impactful character to any of our group, either, so it's hard to say who else 'should have' been there. Alisaie shared... one scene with him? Wuk Lamat is the best answer, because she's got the deepest connection to both Robo-Otis and Gulool Ja, but she was a little indisposed at the time. I do wish we could've brought her up in that scene, though; she deserves to have a presence in it, especially with Gulool Ja grappling with the same internal problems she started the expansion with.

[Shookbeast]

1. The idea of the WOL rejoining with other Azem shards is stupid and would be terrible writing. I kind of hope there's a future, villainous Azem shard who tries to do this so the characters can point out how sociopathic it is.

1a. The WOL going back in time to become Azem is the worst theory this fandom has. Azem did not have cat ears or lizard scales.

2. Ice is directly opposite to lightning on the elemental wheel. For all of his many, many flaws, Calyx claims to be acting in the interest of preserving life. What if this "Winterer" group is trying to restore balance to the Ninth?

1) Yes. It is inherently wrong to gobble up unwilling shards to become more powerful. Thus it would be a villain who would do that - exactly as we’ve discussed when referencing a possible villainous Azem shard - doing just that. But I imagine if this is the path forward, the writers will have our character power up with friendly shards during a “last battle” type moment.

1a) Personally, I don’t find it stupid. But your mileage may vary. What you pointed out however, can easily be solved in the game with a glamour that is later dispelled once certain characters are let on to our actual appearance. It would even be fun to hop into the character creation menu with a specific toolset of Ancient looks to make our appearance.

2) That’s a very cool (no pun intended) idea and I support it. Would be fascinating to see if this group intends to preserve a reflection other than the source - to the detriment of the other reflections.

[PorxiesRCute]

1) Yes. It is inherently wrong to gobble up unwilling shards to become more powerful. Thus it would be a villain who would do that - exactly as we’ve discussed when referencing a possible villainous Azem shard - doing just that. But I imagine if this is the path forward, the writers will have our character power up with friendly shards during a “last battle” type moment.

1a) Personally, I don’t find it stupid. But your mileage may vary. What you pointed out however, can easily be solved in the game with a glamour that is later dispelled once certain characters are let on to our actual appearance. It would even be fun to hop into the character creation menu with a specific toolset of Ancient looks to make our appearance.

It all honestly feels like a power fantasy for the sake of power fantasy.

What's the narrative purpose of rejoining with Azem's other shards?

What makes it interesting, and how does it do so without diluting Ardbert's sacrifice?

Why would the WOL even want to abandon all of their friends to take on the role of someone who, for all we've been told up until now, was their own separate person?

And if we went back to become Azem, wouldn't that just spit in the face of Shadowbringer and Endwalker's narratives that reincarnations are their own people?

[SannaR]

Msq thoughts

Well it was a patch. Better than 7.1 but not as good as 7.2. I liked that the WoL actually took action in a few scenes. Helping to heal Milo's mom without prompting if you were playing as a healer was nice. Blocking the incoming attack aimed at Sphene and either launching an aetheric ball or physically attacking the core was unexpected. I was worried that they would kill off the mom. It does feel a bit odd that the member of Oblivion who died before Geode didn't get named.

Now we have a third way of what can happen to a body after they die. As until this patch it was aether dust with pyreflies that just vanished or the there's still a body that can be buried. I do wonder if turning into a dust pile is affected by having worn a regulator. As even though the sentries were targeting people without regulators we know some of them had worn one at some point.

It feels odd that Gunbreakers and Machinists are the only people who use aetherical bullets. As Merlwyb at least during her duel with Sicard and everyone else seems to use physical bullets. I do hope that the Scions start to go back to making educated guesses as to why someone or how someone or something is doing whatever. As Krile should have been able to deduce that Cylax wanted to make sure he reached his numbers goal at the very least.

I also loved how the WoL was the only one who was unphased by having to fight Necron some more. As I doubt we got even remotely tired by the dungeon. Which while yes it was another trip through various environments we at least were not getting a full narrated experience. You had to bring Sphene to get extra input. Did anyone else notice that the metal parts of the Ascian robe was brass/gold instead of silver as how it was with the others outside of Fandaniel? As I don't think we ever really saw him in traditional Ascian robes. It is interesting that he called his version of a summoning a concept as that could be one more extra thing whomever he is working with told him about.

I do think Geode in a can will somehow lead to us finding a way to releasing Voidsent stuffed into a memoria crystal.

Raid

Sureel Ja needs to be given an MSQ rundown cause I doubt having us fight Promothia or even Altana would be challenging enough. I'm still not sure what the massive culling of wild life note is a reference to. I don't enjoy the knockback tank buster in the 3rd fight only due to not trusting other people and having my party the 1st time seeing it get mpked by it. I only really enjoyed the 3rd n 4th fights. It is a bit strange that we fight above what is known as Sea in the 4th fight when the person we fight has nothing to do with the expansion that zone shows up in. I am a bit surprised that Omega didn't go into bipedal mode during the airship fights or that we also didn't get an adds pack of XI's mammets. I am also a little disappointed that the devs didn't inflict the Sanna d'Orian bagpipes on people. Not that the Ronfaure zone theme is bad. It does look as though our XI comrades are made to be just electrope and that our adventurer friend might be more than he currently remembers. I haven't gone around to find them in the wild post raid to see what they comment on. Apparently they have gone back and made the Enigma Codex look closer to electrope.

[SannaR]

Another msq tidbit

It seems we were not informing the three Scions that fell off the face of Tural past 7.0 of what we were up to in the post patches. As if you poke Alphinaud before turning in the final quest he says that he would go and give the deets to Thancred and Urianger asap. That he would also let Estinien know, but trying to track Estinien down could take some time. Not that I didn't mind not having them around but this whole expansion hasn't really known how to write the Scions. Yet just like some plot threads brought up in 7.0 and just left to hang there until post expansion patches it still feels odd that we haven't been keeping those three up to date or even had one single "Back at the Hall of Justice..." scene to become envious of Thancred and Urianger's actual vacation and what new obsessed with eating thing Estinien has come across with his wandering.

Azem talk

I feel that for me at least I want to know if certain personality traits are semi etched into the soul or not. Do I want the devs to feel as though they need to keep on rejoining the WoL? No. I also don't want to have that happen even if that seems to be the most likely at this point situation to end up in. It's just I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't expect to run into more Azem stuff. That gun has already been fired. The whole would it matter if X was this person again to me plays into people's fascination with "if you could have a do over at life while retaining knowledge of your past life would you take the offer and what would you change?" type questions. It's why the show Sliders was good until outside influences mutated it into what it became in the later seasons.

[PorxiesRCute]

Msq thoughts

Now we have a third way of what can happen to a body after they die. As until this patch it was aether dust with pyreflies that just vanished or the there\\\\'s still a body that can be buried. I do wonder if turning into a dust pile is affected by having worn a regulator. As even though the sentries were targeting people without regulators we know some of them had worn one at some point.

The game explicitly said that the bodies turned to dust because the sentries were draining them of their corporeal aether.

(This forum sucks, why don't words inside spoiler blocks count toward the character minimum?)