League levels of toxic behavour in game.

[Ardeth]

My gripe with wall to wall is that it's just boring and it stagnates the dungeons into what they are now which is just featureless hallways. It's not hard to spam aoes. It just makes every activity a how fast can I do it exercise, and it's just lazy and boring. Even this new dungeon is one interesting boss and the same old shit.

[Levy9]

It comes off as extremely entitled when a DPS tries to set the pace of a dungeon for everyone else, then threatens to report the other players for not meeting their demands on pacing. It legit seems like forcing your way on others. What recourse does a Tank or Healer have if they don't want to pull that fast? Why do so many people believe that the DPS' desire to pull faster should be catered to while the other players desires should be ignored if they want something else? Why do you think this?

I'm of the opinion that the Tank and Healer set the pace because the Tank has to deal with any pulled mob's enmity and the healer has to deal with any pulled mob's damage output. More mobs, faster makes their roles harder, while it does not affect the DPS' responsibility in the same way. In short, the DPS wants to force the Tank and Healer to put in more effort while they perform at the same level to speed up a dungeon run. Who knows if their DPS output is even good? Extremely entitled, imho. Especially the threats.

I don't believe in "you pull it, you tank it", but at least those guys aren't threatening to report the other players for not meeting their demands on pacing.

[Liyinabi]

It comes off as extremely entitled when a DPS tries to set the pace of a dungeon for everyone else, then threatens to report the other players for not meeting their demands on pacing. It legit seems like forcing your way on others. What recourse does a Tank or Healer have if they don't want to pull that fast? Why do so many people believe that the DPS' desire to pull faster should be catered to while the other players desires should be ignored if they want something else? Why do you think this?

I feel like this should go both ways but only in extreme circumstances or where there's friction. A DPS pulling mere seconds before the tank does really won't matter. A tank taking a second for cooldowns to come back up doesn't matter either. Problems only arise when someone throws a hissy fit about one of the above, a DPS pulls so early they might die to autos before the tank can grab aggro, a tank stands there for minutes at a time and just wastes time, etc. Tanks and healers should be allowed to play the game without getting yelled at by their DPS or feeling like someone's breathing down their neck, and DPSes shouldn't have their time wasted. (No, a few seconds off of clear time doesn't count as time wasted.)

These things happen sometimes, but I honestly didn't think YPYT or toxic speedy DPSes were as big or common of a problem as they seem to be made out to be in this thread. The only word of advice I have for people who experience these problems regularly is for them to REALLY look inside of themselves and think "What am I doing wrong that's annoying x% of the people I run into duty finder?"

[Asari5]

yeah its not the dps' decision how fast you go. but neither is it the tanks.
of course there are exceptions like someone learning to tank (but not on lvl 100 xD)

but overall it should be a groups decision. some people have that specific pictures of tank in their mind. a leader who has to guide us through dangerous areas. pulling and protecting us.
but thats all from the past (or at least from other games)

in ff14 tanks are NO guides. most dungeons have only one way anyway. and if there are several rooms any other team member is able to show the way as well. but maybe tanks would have to look at the team member jumping around in the direction to one or the other way... but most dont even pay attention.
the tank being the one who pulls comes from three things.
1. aggro management (which is a joke in ff14 nowadays)
2. several walking mobs who would bring the whole room with them if you pull at the wrong time. (not just a few like in ff14... more like 20 coming at you at once xD)
3. to make the pulls smoother.

the third one is the only still current one. if the others two were still a thing dps wouldnt just run in xD.
but the third one is more of a nice to have thing rather than a necessity.

im not saying its alright for the dps to pull. im against that as well. but it certainly isnt a big enough deal to throw a childish tantrum and most of all tanks are no leaders. they dont take the pace they want if anything they take the pace the group wants / is able to do. and only being able to kill single groups is a very very rare thing.
but apparently doing dozens of dungeons isnt enough practic to pull two groups

yeah thats my stance. the group over anything and anyone in the group is part of it.

[Trevski]

I have been a tank player for pretty much the whole time I've played MMORPGs.

Sorry but I for me personally I believe the tank should be the one to pull

Does not compute. Many MMOs have non-tanks handle pulling.

It takes one (1) AE ability to wrangle a pack. Plus you have Provoke as an option

To any DPS player out there who pulls.

Get a friend who tanks and then do that. Don't do that to a random tank who is trying their best.

Trusts exist. Aggro management in this game is not hard, especially when compared to other MMOs.

DPS can handle a hit or two. If they're running around chicken headed and getting killed that's on them. Tell them to run mobs to you if they hit th em.

[Rebbons]

Yall need to stop tanking man holy hell just press your aoe button once and gg

[Haru304]

Personally, I think we should just remove job specifications entirely and throw everything under a 'DPS' tag, and nerf enemy damage to the point there's no real way to wipe beyond standing there and doing nothing for upwards of two hours.

[Altina_Orion]

yeah its not the dps' decision how fast you go. but neither is it the tanks.
of course there are exceptions like someone learning to tank (but not on lvl 100 xD)

but overall it should be a groups decision. some people have that specific pictures of tank in their mind. a leader who has to guide us through dangerous areas. pulling and protecting us.
but thats all from the past (or at least from other games)

in ff14 tanks are NO guides. most dungeons have only one way anyway. and if there are several rooms any other team member is able to show the way as well. but maybe tanks would have to look at the team member jumping around in the direction to one or the other way... but most dont even pay attention.
the tank being the one who pulls comes from three things.
1. aggro management (which is a joke in ff14 nowadays)
2. several walking mobs who would bring the whole room with them if you pull at the wrong time. (not just a few like in ff14... more like 20 coming at you at once xD)
3. to make the pulls smoother.

the third one is the only still current one. if the others two were still a thing dps wouldnt just run in xD.
but the third one is more of a nice to have thing rather than a necessity.

im not saying its alright for the dps to pull. im against that as well. but it certainly isnt a big enough deal to throw a childish tantrum and most of all tanks are no leaders. they dont take the pace they want if anything they take the pace the group wants / is able to do. and only being able to kill single groups is a very very rare thing.
but apparently doing dozens of dungeons isnt enough practic to pull two groups

yeah thats my stance. the group over anything and anyone in the group is part of it.

In terms of reality and not an ideal situation, the truth is that the fastest player sets the pace. If a mob is pulled, you don't have a choice but to deal with it.

[zarahleo]

How many times has this happened to you because in the 5 years I have played its happened a handful of times where people have pulled ahead and I can't remember anyone ever pulling ahead AND giving abuse. Are you maybe exaggerating a bit here and it happened once?

[klu]

Yall need to stop tanking man holy hell just press your aoe button once and gg

Yall need to stop running off to pull more mobs man holy hell just attack the mobs the tank is attacking and heal the tank and gg