Can Humans transformed into Pirmals temper?

[SannaR]

What or who can temper is an interesting thing. As even inanimate objects that are bathed in a primal's aether is enough to temper someone. As the big beacons that have an aggro link to an Amalj'aa are alit with Ifrit's flames. Same with the metal poles with flames where a candle would be and the weapons you occasionally are sent out to go and collect. I haven't done the sylphs recently, but I would assume the beacons in the slyph lands that also have an aggro link to a slyph are bathed in Ramuh's ather. Bahamut is the only primal (outside of Thordan most likely) who has been shown to untemper their thralls. Bahamut is also the only primal that is shown to be capable of tempering other primals.

Even though we are told followers of a primal are capable of tempering others we don't see a whole lot of it happening. Amalj'aa do raids, but they seem to bring their captives to their priests who then summon Ifrit and Ifrit then tempers them. We see this in the 1.0 dealing with them and the 2.0 dealings. Though they probably started to rely on non transformed non Amalj'aa tempered as it would be easier to trick non Amalj'aa this way. Not so much with the Sahagin where the drowned are fairly obvious so they like the Ixali just do it themselves. Meanwhile the Kolbolds, Sylphs, Gnath, Vanu Vanu and maybe the Red Kojin tend to only kidnap people if you're dumb enough to step into their territory. The Red Kojin seem to only really be aggressive when someone is paying them to do so though. The Gnath also seem to only temper their own kind and Ravana seems to only be interested in fighting.

[Cleretic]

What or who can temper is an interesting thing. As even inanimate objects that are bathed in a primal's aether is enough to temper someone. As the big beacons that have an aggro link to an Amalj'aa are alit with Ifrit's flames. Same with the metal poles with flames where a candle would be and the weapons you occasionally are sent out to go and collect. I haven't done the sylphs recently, but I would assume the beacons in the slyph lands that also have an aggro link to a slyph are bathed in Ramuh's ather. Bahamut is the only primal (outside of Thordan most likely) who has been shown to untemper their thralls. Bahamut is also the only primal that is shown to be capable of tempering other primals.

Even though we are told followers of a primal are capable of tempering others we don't see a whole lot of it happening. Amalj'aa do raids, but they seem to bring their captives to their priests who then summon Ifrit and Ifrit then tempers them. We see this in the 1.0 dealing with them and the 2.0 dealings. Though they probably started to rely on non transformed non Amalj'aa tempered as it would be easier to trick non Amalj'aa this way. Not so much with the Sahagin where the drowned are fairly obvious so they like the Ixali just do it themselves. Meanwhile the Kolbolds, Sylphs, Gnath, Vanu Vanu and maybe the Red Kojin tend to only kidnap people if you're dumb enough to step into their territory. The Red Kojin seem to only really be aggressive when someone is paying them to do so though. The Gnath also seem to only temper their own kind and Ravana seems to only be interested in fighting.

An interesting question with tempering to me is Alexander. Regular people, at least one 100% confirmably without the Echo, were literally inside the thing for an extended period, and yet none of them got tempered. You could theorize that it's because Alexander didn't want to do that, but neither did Ramuh, and he was still doing it.

My personal theory on that is, because tempering was a fault in the process engineered by the Ascians, the Illuminati's primal didn't temper because they're engineers, they saw the problem and fixed it.

[SannaR]

What is even more interesting is Cid being one of those non echo users should have by the time Alexander comes around been tempered twice over. Once by by Bahamut through close proximity to his father and again while piloting his airship during our fighting with Bismarck. The man must have put some stats into luck.

[Anonymoose]

For the time being, I just settled on a theory that it's possible for it to vary from primal to primal whether they have a "leaky aura", how far it reaches, how powerful its corruptive potential is, etc.


Imagine trying to build a Gundam. We could probably find the raw materials and design workable schematics, but how do you supply enough power to make it actually do the things you want it to do? How do you design computer systems capable of managing the things it would need to manage?

Summoning a primal into Alexander's core was simply the most efficient, effective way to get around the practical limitations of its own design. The actual corrupting aura, if it even had one, might have been limited or contained.

Might be a very different scenario from, say, standing directly next to Zurvan.

[Zero-ELEC]

The main thing about the Alexander scenario that always bothered me is that they never mention tempering as far as I remember. It just doesn't come up, even as a "it's interesting it's not tempering anyone" or "we're lucky we weren't tempered". Which always seemed odd to me because Heavensward and its patches was when the game was doing a whole lot of thinking about how tempering worked.

[Cleretic]

The main thing about the Alexander scenario that always bothered me is that they never mention tempering as far as I remember. It just doesn't come up, even as a "it's interesting it's not tempering anyone" or "we're lucky we weren't tempered". Which always seemed odd to me because Heavensward and its patches was when the game was doing a whole lot of thinking about how tempering worked.

It also didn't come up around Bismarck, even though the Ironworks were also there for that. Granted, that one's a little more actively dangerous if you're close to it; worrying about tempering while flying next to Bismarck is like worrying you might get skin cancer while flying directly into the sun.

[No_Nick_Needed]

As even inanimate objects that are bathed in a primal's aether is enough to temper someone.

As part of the Amalj'aa allied society dailies, you can get a quest where you cure captives from tempering with sacred ashes, so I suspect that the tempering done by other tempered or via items is far, far weaker, not to mention reversible, so the priests probably bring those converted that way to Ifrit so they can get a full-strength, non-reversible (prior to Porxies) tempering. Who knows, maybe this imperfect tempering might even wear off over time, if it's not overwritten with a proper one done by the primal.


As for Alexander, it might operate to slightly different rules on account of being a machine, not a living being. Though some primals being able to consciously avoid tempering also makes sense, since there are others where this issue popps up, like Tsukuyomi, who had the opportunity to quickly temper Hien, Asahi, Maxima and a couple of others, but didn't even try.

There also some inconsistency in how we've seen and heard primals tempering. We saw Ifrit and Lakshmi temper, or try to temper others by hitting them with something, the blue fire in case of Ifrit and Lakshmi with the blobs we intercepted, while other primals are said to temper with their mere presence. And Bahamut was able to remotely temper Cid's father through a transmission.
Could be differences in the summoning process or individual charactersitics of the primals, or their summoners.

[Larirawiel]

I do not like how the tempering works in FF14. There is literary no consistency how it happens. It happens through blue fire, blue blobs, the summoning of the primal itself, walkie-talkie, a loud scream of a primal and now also through some devices on the head. It has become too arbitrary, IMHO.


Cheers

[Zero-ELEC]

I do not like how the tempering works in FF14. There is literary no consistency how it happens. It happens through blue fire, blue blobs, the summoning of the primal itself, walkie-talkie, a loud scream of a primal and now also through some devices on the head. It has become too arbitrary, IMHO.


Cheers

It happens through aether. Tempering is overaspecting something into the primals' element with the addition of memory manipulation. It doesn't matters how it happens, just that there's a vehicle through which it happens.

[WhiteArchmage]

We also have Sylph quests for how you don't even need the primal alive to temper others, as Tempered Sylphs use Ramuh's aether to temper others. As far as I've understood it, when summoning a large enough primal, they can temper through the mere act of summoning (Zodiark), and afterwards the Primal must consciously temper (Ifrit, Lakshmi, Garuda), and if there's an object with enough residual aether from the primal (Sylphs), it can even be used to temper by itself. And that's not even getting into Zantesuken, which tempers its wielder.