yoshi what are you doing to steel cyclone ):?

[Krausus]

reading your post again you missed the point of my post entirely !!

PLD should take much less damage than any class !

War shouldnt be able to tank and do damage and hold emnity and heal

Simples

yeah I read that wrong sorry about that. but I disagree with PLD > WAR IMO should be PLD = WAR in tanking abilities but that they do it differently.

[Vaymathias]

yeah I read that wrong sorry about that. but I disagree with PLD > WAR IMO should be PLD = WAR in tanking abilities but that they do it differently.

If that's the case then WAR should = PLD in offensive abilities.

It should be able to do both well, but not the best at either, whether it's at the same time or alternating (with opposing stances, Berserk/Defender). The alternating method being slightly better at each independently than the former.

[Krausus]

If that's the case then WAR should = PLD in offensive abilities.

It should be able to do both well, but not the best at either, whether it's at the same time or alternating (with opposing stances, Berserk/Defender). The alternating method being slightly better at each independently than the former.

but its not the best at dps just better then PLD while PLD is better at healing than a WAR yet not the best at healing compared to WHM. See what I'm getting at. Earlier I mentioned PLDs secondary needs boosting IMO, as well as their Def, HP, and mana pool. I'm not against SC nerf it needs it, what I'm against is the linear opinion that PLD should be the best tank and that there should only be one good tank, and the miss spread of information in this thread.

[Vaymathias]

but its not the best at dps just better then PLD while PLD is better at healing than a WAR yet not the best at healing compared to WHM. See what I'm getting at. Earlier I mentioned PLDs secondary needs boosting IMO, as well as their Def, HP, and mana pool. I'm not against SC nerf it needs it, what I'm against is the linear opinion that PLD should be the best tank and that there should only be one good tank, and the miss spread of information in this thread.

The healing is mostly only there to improve their tanking abilities, and I only say mostly because not everyone is going to use it the way commonly used.

But, best tank, which it should be, doesn't take into account the reduced life of the enemy that is caused by WAR. It's the trade off, there will be cases that you need a pure tank, but there will also be cases where you can be a little more lax in the tanking area to add offense to make everything go more effectively.

Making PLD's healing better only goes to make it a job that can do two roles but not as effectively as a single role, and considering how they're already designing content for the min-maxers it's likely going to be needed.

[Krausus]

The healing is mostly only there to improve their tanking abilities, and I only say mostly because not everyone is going to use it the way commonly used.

But, best tank, which it should be, doesn't take into account the reduced life of the enemy that is caused by WAR. It's the trade off, there will be cases that you need a pure tank, but there will also be cases where you can be a little more lax in the tanking area to add offense to make everything go more effectively.

Making PLD's healing better only goes to make it a job that can do two roles but not as effectively as a single role, and considering how they're already designing content for the min-maxers it's likely going to be needed.

then we will have to agree to disagree on best tank. (I also dont think WAR should be best either I think they should both be equal choices where one provides more damage and the other takes less). I would also like to see PLD take up a secondary less effective role with healing as well, seems to fit the role of how tanking works in this game giving both a secondary also seems to fit the general lore of warrior and paladin in other games/stories as well.

[Gennosuke]

yeah I read that wrong sorry about that. but I disagree with PLD > WAR IMO should be PLD = WAR in tanking abilities but that they do it differently.

I disagree with the notion that PLD = WAR. They are different roles with different purposes.
Warrior, as the name suggests comes across as an aggressive type of role that can both deal damage and handle damage in crowds.
Paladin on the other hand has a pure sole purpose of defending, i think that's given, considering his rubbish damage.

Paladin should theoretically defend better and take less damage, otherwise it really doesn't serve it's purpose, and this is the current issue with Paladin at the moment, hence the little demand for it. Raising his mp pool can alleviate the issue some but his attributes need to be fixed up. His defense should be increased, and so should his HP and MP pool, perhaps his abilities too. Then the Pld and War can be on equal grounds. Paladin defends and survives better, however War defends well and has the added advantage that he damages well too.

On the other hand, i think War needs to be closely examined to other DD's to keep other DD roles balanced too and have them not just significantly stronger but more unique. We'll know it's balanced when the day comes and people have less bias and demand for War in a pt.