Premades Don’t Break Frontline — They Broke the Illusion of the Horde Stampede

[Mawlzy]

Very angry first post full of easily-disproved exaggeration.

If any of your characterizations of players in your matches are remotely close to the truth, it would appear that Primal FL matches have really gone down the toilet.

I wonder if that well-known Discord server has played a part in the sad demise.

[Chairoikoguma]

Good job deflecting all my points while providing nothing of sustenance of your own. If you think I am lying, why do you think players are even able to reach 3mil+ damage dealt every game? Why is it that in JP games it's very hard to even reach 1.5m damage dealt? Padding only exists through lack of guarding/retaliation/punishment and well, bursting. This should be sufficient proof enough that NA simply is not very good at the game. How about you try making a premade team and then test it for yourself in JP vs NA? Unless you're all talk? :P

I can assure you, you'll find a lot more success in NA. Not because of ping, but people because just aren't good. I read your posts and premades in NA have a higher win-rate because the average player in NA is just really bad. If those NA premades played in JP they wouldn't have such win rate I can promise you this.

@People who say they've had "bad/dog (as an low quality) games in JP"; either you are full of it or played ONE game and are basing your entire experience off of that one game. The lowest quality JP game is onpar with even some NA syncs. JP is known for turtling due to people knowing how to burst and punish people when they get within range, that's the only bad thing I can think of right off the bat. In NA you can run in kill someone and run out for free. This does not happen in JP.

Maybe watch a few JP FL streams and then talk yeah? I can recommend you some streams if you'd like.

[Mawlzy]

Good job deflecting all my points while providing nothing of sustenance of your own. If you think I am lying, why do you think players are even able to reach 3mil+ damage dealt every game? Why is it that in JP games it's very hard to even reach 1.5m damage dealt? Padding only exists through lack of guarding/retaliation/punishment and well, bursting. This should be sufficient proof enough that NA simply is not very good at the game. How about you try making a premade team and then test it for yourself in JP vs NA? Unless you're all talk? :P

I can assure you, you'll find a lot more success in NA. Not because of ping, but people because just aren't good. I read your posts and premades in NA have a higher win-rate because the average player in NA is just really bad. If those NA premades played in JP they wouldn't have such win rate I can promise you this.

@People who say they've had "bad/dog (as an low quality) games in JP"; either you are full of it or played ONE game and are basing your entire experience off of that one game. The lowest quality JP game is onpar with even some NA syncs. JP is known for turtling due to people knowing how to burst and punish people when they get within range, that's the only bad thing I can think of right off the bat. In NA you can run in kill someone and run out for free. This does not happen in JP.

Maybe watch a few JP FL streams and then talk yeah? I can recommend you some streams if you'd like.

I didn't deflect anything, I pointed out that absurd exaggerations are not helping this discussion.

I don't run in premades, I don't like the playstyle.

[Chairoikoguma]

That's the thing though, it sounds absurd when you put it into the words but this is 90% of my games in NA. I cannot make this up. You can look at any NA FL stream and compare it with JP and the lack of guarding and awareness is extremely alarming.

[Chairoikoguma]

I didn't deflect anything, I pointed out that absurd exaggerations are not helping this discussion.

If you even read my post you wouldn't have come to this conclusion. Please properly address my points.

[Mawlzy]

That's the thing though, it sounds absurd when you put it into the words but this is 90% of my games in NA. I cannot make this up. You can look at any NA FL stream and compare it with JP and the lack of guarding and awareness is extremely alarming.

I've watched JP streams (remember Teets McGhee?) and agree the quality of play in JP FL is far higher than on NA.

The question is: is this actually a problem and, if so, what can be done about it?

Suggestions such as a simple MMR to funnel better players into the same pool receive no support whatsoever from the Discord Mafia, presumably because the majority of them are seal clubbers who are quite happy with the status quo. As one mentioned: "where else can you wipe out an entire alliance in one burst?"

[Mawlzy]

If you even read my post you wouldn't have come to this conclusion. Please properly address my points.

If you insist.

Premades don't really influence much aside from burst countdown and proper map rotations.

Apparently you've never played with Olivia.

Anyone that uses the excuse of premades ruin x are either:

1) bad
2) refusing to self-improve
3) delusional
4) all of the above

Or they dislike the playstyle a premade with a good shot-caller produces. Or they dislike premade padders who are only interested in their damage numbers. Or they dislike lethargic premades who rush to beach to do the synchronized bees knees.

Premades do not gain access to any extra skills, we all use the same abilities. Full swing being one of the tools that easily dismantles any form of DRK/GNB composition but no one in NA pays attention to the DRK running towards them and doesn't press guard. This is skill issue. If premades were truly a problem you would feel it in other region like China and Japan who are way more hardcore into FL.

False. Many people do. It would be better if more did.

From my experience, Japanese players don't really use Discord/voice chat at all. Solo teams are fully capable of beating premades in that region and as I've pointed out we all access to the same abilities in the game. NA simply is not good at playing the game. This they need to accept. They don't put in the effort so they don't get good, it's pretty simple.

It's certainly the case that a significant fraction of NA players who queue into FL for XP or mogtomes are not very skilled. But they needn't accept anything. They simply don't care. They have no interest in getting good. They are playing a mode that doesn't interest them. I wish they wouldn't.

Before anyone says or mentions anything related to casuals, have you seen the casuals in China and Japan? They're about as good as any veterans in NA. Stop trying to find excuses for your own shortcomings. It's not premades, it's not because it's meant to be a casual game mode that you have to play lethargically, you guys just suck. Plain truth.

Not sure who "you guys" is in this context, nor how I would identify a casual playing in JP/CN. There are plenty of Aether regulars who are pretty good. "You guys just suck," isn't a helpful observation.

You don't want to take orders and play in an organized manner? Fine. That's your choice and you're allowed to have that option. But to then start complaining about premades/people shouldn't be able to play together because you suck and can't play properly/counter their stack with literally either Full Swing or Meteodrive is on you.

And before anyone says "OH BUT THAT MEANS I HAVE TO PLAY TANK/MONK TO COUNTER THEM??", no you dunce. Open your eyes, look at the DRK running towards you, KILL THEM. They do not have the same damage reduction as the other tanks. They're literally almost as squishy as a red mage/dancer/sage. See chart: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...e/frontline/4/

I'm assuming I'm not required to comment on you running around stamping your feet while screaming?

But yeah, let's blame premades because of lack of game comprehension (let's not forget how 90% of the playerbase never presses guard, heal, purify, nor check their map). Every game I mark the enemy dark knight with a big ol' bind 1/2/3 and I put in alliance chat "focus the bind marked target or you will all die" and no one listens and they all die to no one's surprise.

False.

[Aravell]

@People who say they've had "bad/dog (as an low quality) games in JP"; either you are full of it or played ONE game and are basing your entire experience off of that one game..

I've played 686 matchs of FL on JP and I want to confirm that you absolutely can have bad games on JP.

Ever heard the term "grudge commander"? The games with those people at the helm are awful. They spend the entire match commanding the whole team to attack one GC regardless of the points, even if they lose, when people realise the other team needs to be hit, the commander will spam commands to hit the team they have targetted.

In NA you can run in kill someone and run out for free. This does not happen in JP.

You can absolutely dive in and kill someone and get out in JP FL, they may punish you harder but it's not impossible to pull off. It's common enough to see a bad SAM LB send someone into the enemy team and they still get out alive.

JP FL may have a higher general skill average, but it's far from some FL utopia where everyone is good at the game and bad plays somehow don't exist.

[Altina_Orion]

I think you have the wrong idea. 4 players in a voice call running jobs that synergize like drk+3astro being able to control the flow of an entire team and putting 48 people at a disadvantage for not having friends who will do this is a problem. This "hoard stampede meta" is simply a byproduct of large-scale combat. Every team has the same number of players and should be capable of doing this, so the team that does it the best wins a lot of points.

[ChrysOCE]

Good job deflecting all my points while providing nothing of sustenance of your own. If you think I am lying, why do you think players are even able to reach 3mil+ damage dealt every game? Why is it that in JP games it's very hard to even reach 1.5m damage dealt? Padding only exists through lack of guarding/retaliation/punishment and well, bursting. This should be sufficient proof enough that NA simply is not very good at the game. How about you try making a premade team and then test it for yourself in JP vs NA? Unless you're all talk? :P

I can assure you, you'll find a lot more success in NA. Not because of ping, but people because just aren't good. I read your posts and premades in NA have a higher win-rate because the average player in NA is just really bad. If those NA premades played in JP they wouldn't have such win rate I can promise you this.

@People who say they've had "bad/dog (as an low quality) games in JP"; either you are full of it or played ONE game and are basing your entire experience off of that one game. The lowest quality JP game is onpar with even some NA syncs. JP is known for turtling due to people knowing how to burst and punish people when they get within range, that's the only bad thing I can think of right off the bat. In NA you can run in kill someone and run out for free. This does not happen in JP.

Maybe watch a few JP FL streams and then talk yeah? I can recommend you some streams if you'd like.

i've done 500+ games in JP. 100% yes there have been awful games on JP