The 7.3 Armour preview is offensive

[Debassak]

Yeah, no this is atrocious. As someone whose heritage is partially that of partially conquistadors and colonizers and also Mexican in general, this is wildly tone deaf. It's absurdly out of line with the rest of the tone that the expansions has been using so far to the point it's tone deaf ala the New World stuff in Stormblood. Co-signing, this is not okay. Literally any other expansion but this one.

[burgeaux]

While references to colonizers was a shared history centuries ago, indigenous people continue to experience repeated colonization efforts presently throughout the world; because colonization wasn't a single event. Needless to say YES. While the gear pieces wouldn't be as big of an issue if released otherwise, the CONTEXT of releasing conquistador + musketeer gear in an expansion inspired by the PRE-CONTACT AMERICAS *is* offensive!


THE PROBLEM

I have my own reservations on the way Dawntrail has handled the variety of cultures across the two continents as a latino; but to take inspiration from military gear, not even really resembling Steiner (closest comparison to FFIX), is a poor decision considering the colonizing force parallels drawn from Alexandria/S9 in FFXIV.





1:1 replicas aren't necessary to inflict the same wound or draw conclusions, as many people in this thread already have. Replacing chestplates with tabards still has the same connotations. We didn't get gear inspired by the British army while going through Thavnair, the team had the tact to move away from SS/Nazi influence for the Garleans despite parallels in authoritative power. Even Star Wars is more on the nose with its visual inspirations for the empire + aren't afraid to make them wholly antagonistic. Why now?

A previous poster offered a good point with SQEX's design philosophy in Stormblood: "We can't use anything that has real-world religious or cultural connotations. If we want to make something that draws from religious imagery, ethnic clothing, and so on, it needs to be significantly altered."

The quote has become less viable due to clearer parallels FFXIV has drawn from cultures for specific narratives overtime. This can lead to disaster; conflating living people to fantasy or watering down the cultural importance of specific motifs. It implies that you can't have a respectful mix of native elements with OTHER fantasy/historical fashion influence throughout the world. Thus as a result of ignorance, or malice, these faults will trickle to repeated behavior within the community — as seen with the war bonnet, traditional Korean attire, and Sámi clothing. 2 out of 3 whose issues have not been rectified.


PROPOSED SOLUTION

1. Removing the gear entirely.
2. Removing offensive/recognizable parts of the gear (namely tabards, sashes, and the helmet).
3. Offering a dyable reskin of the Yuyeyawata gear.

These solutions have been offered the thread (which are greatly appreciated)! I just thought to condense it all to prevent information being buried further.

Dawntrail has snubbed a lot of my love for this game. At the end of the day, I want to see it get better for my black + native friends who enjoy it. *I* want to enjoy it again. It hurts to see the dev team swears they've learned, wronged their mistakes, and continue to get better — yet things stay the same.

[Viverna]

Bumping for support. Many of us agree that we'd like reskinned / dyable Yuweyawatan gear instead.

There's also a really important point made by user Decomposer in this thread a few messages back, of this gear, considering its connotations, being possibly used as a form of harassment against Native and LATAM players. Echoing that as well.
Please do not put this gear in the final game.

[Livvy]

Bumping to offer my support – and to express my disappointment as someone who has played since 2.0.

That this gear was even considered, let alone previewed to players, is a testament to how CS3's cultural sensitivity resources are incredibly lacking, despite promises made to players that care would be taken to represent their cultures with respect. This misstep is all the more egregious in a current global climate that tries to downplay the (very much ongoing) effects of colonialism. Not only has this made me lose all enthusiasm I had for patch 7.3, it's also making me seriously reconsider supporting other future CS3 projects – including Final Fantasy Tactics, one of my favorite games of all time.

[vhsgod]

Hi there. I am bumping this thread and also reposting my original post for clarity.

There are so many voices that can put it better than I can. But I will say as someone who lives in an area that has been historically affected by Spanish colonialism, the designs of the 7.3 armour set are not lost to me and it is quite disappointing that they were approved of without a second thought or any further consultation. It is more than reasonable for our LatAM and Indigenous peers to be upset about this and to call for us to point out the historical significance behind these costumes, especially given current world events.

"I don't see anything wrong with it / It's just an outfit, who cares / it's all in the past, how are you [LatAM/Indigenous peoples] affected?"

Racial pain and trauma do not go away overnight, especially when it has been enabled and upheld for hundreds of years instead of being pushed back against. Especially when LatAM and Indigenous people are constantly exposed to these dark reminders that are being paraded as "harmless fun." Why is it "no politics in my MMO" until marginalized peoples point out they don't wish to see their trauma being cosplayed, especially when they want to enjoy a game while coping with a chaotic world that keeps turning against them? Many people are trying to find solace in this game to deal with these trying times, but between this and many other reasons related to quality assurance, it is no wonder why this game is having a lot of trouble staying afloat. It is disheartening to see, especially when so many of my friends and I have invested so much time into it.

I want to hope that CBU3 and SE reads this feedback and re-evaluate what it means to be careful when portraying cultures outside of their own. Inclusion means nothing if you resort to stereotypes and make poor design decisions without further feedback. There is so much of Dawntrail that I love and admire that really tells me how much care went into it. However, this is one of the negative aspects of this expansion where it is quite telling to me that there was no care given here. I understand that time may be needed to address this, if any time and/or attention is given at all. But the last thing I will say is that I urge the XIV team to please do better and be more sincere with how you approach and portray others.

[CynisterAsh]

Bumping this with my own two cents in support so we get more eyes on this and square knows this isn't acceptable

It is blatantly clear that the promised effort to "learn from past mistakes" was an empty one. The devs remain unaccountable and have not addressed the appropriation of Sami cultural clothing and sacred Indigenous ceremonial gear from NA tribes despite direct appeals from the people who are directly affected. The cultural insensitivity in Stormblood was addressed with a handwave and an empty promise of "cultural sensitivity advisors". The writing was on the wall as devs teased Dawntrail by calling it "The New World" (colonizer terminology) and advertising it as a tropical tourist trap. Fans were already on edge even with the promise of "cultural sensitivity" as devs/writers leaned harder into this schema, and it is clear with the release of this new set alongside the current themes going on with Tural and Alexandria in the lore, that your cultural sensitivity advisors were either poorly trained or on leave entirely. Dev insistence that they do not directly borrow from real life designs without thoroughly altering it is becoming a less viable scapegoat, as it doesn't take someone well versed in religious/iconographic history to perceive the inspiration behind the new dungeon gear release. Clear Spanish conquistador inspiration married with Indigenous patterns and dress has left a foul taste in many mouths. Especially for our Indigenous community members who have felt this community becoming an increasingly hostile space with their appeals falling on largely deaf ears. "Not knowing better" is not a viable excuse after the fanfare around hiring cultural sensitivity advisors. Please do better, listen to this community and their suggestions. A Yuwewata redesign/dyable set as the new drop would be preferable to what has recently been announced. Thank you everyone for your thorough and caring words. And devs? Please stop making promises you don't intend to keep. As a lifelong Final Fantasy fan who was inspired to pursue art by your games, I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned by the creators I used to look up to.

[AntoniusQuil]

While references to colonizers was a shared history centuries ago, indigenous people continue to experience repeated colonization efforts presently throughout the world; because colonization wasn't a single event. Needless to say YES. While the gear pieces wouldn't be as big of an issue if released otherwise, the CONTEXT of releasing conquistador + musketeer gear in an expansion inspired by the PRE-CONTACT AMERICAS *is* offensive!


THE PROBLEM

I have my own reservations on the way Dawntrail has handled the variety of cultures across the two continents as a latino; but to take inspiration from military gear, not even really resembling Steiner (closest comparison to FFIX), is a poor decision considering the colonizing force parallels drawn from Alexandria/S9 in FFXIV.





1:1 replicas aren't necessary to inflict the same wound or draw conclusions, as many people in this thread already have. Replacing chestplates with tabards still has the same connotations. We didn't get gear inspired by the British army while going through Thavnair, the team had the tact to move away from SS/Nazi influence for the Garleans despite parallels in authoritative power. Even Star Wars is more on the nose with its visual inspirations for the empire + aren't afraid to make them wholly antagonistic. Why now?

A previous poster offered a good point with SQEX's design philosophy in Stormblood: "We can't use anything that has real-world religious or cultural connotations. If we want to make something that draws from religious imagery, ethnic clothing, and so on, it needs to be significantly altered."

PROPOSED SOLUTION.

Your comment is too long to post fully as a quote so I had to cut some of it out.

Sorry but your argument is ridiculous. First of all the equipment depicted in the pictures was used all over Europe in XVI and XVII centuries and isn’t tied directly to conquistadors. It’s like saying that anything inspired by modern day military equipment is referring to some particular war crime.

But more importantly except the musketeer set, the rest of the sets don’t resemble their supposed „irl counterparts” in any way. The supposed „conquistador” set looks more like a quasi fantasy soldier from a Disney movie. Similarly Steiner’s helmet doesn’t look like a morion, if anything it looks like a steel version of peasant hat.

[draculas]

Just quickly reposting what I said in the other thread:

I'm posting to add my support to the Indigenous and Latam players who are upset by this set. This is in fact my first time posting here, and I was made aware of this thread on bluesky, but I've been told that the forums are one of the few places where SE actually reads feedback. I would hope my lack of posting history wouldn't automatically label my support as insincere.

I will say that I clocked this set as evoking conquistadors and the age of exploration before I logged on and read anything. It's clearly not a 1:1 because SE actively avoids historical accuracy when designing armors, but it's nevertheless a disappointing move on their part, especially given how Tural has basically been abandoned to focus on Alexandria. As a game that already borrows from a vaguely defined western European aesthetic for most of their armors, they could've put this set anywhere else. Even as a PVP set; it's not the designs themselves so much as it's a horrible time and place.

I don't think that SE will change the armor. The New World set has been in the game for what, ten years, and the only thing resembling a response to that was Yoshida mumbling about how they "tried harder" with Dawntrail at fanfest. I'm going to post this anyway, because I've seen a lot of frustration from players who had so much hope in DT and I think it's important to uplift those voices, no matter how little of that I'm actually doing, and for SE to see both. And this comment took less than five minutes of my lunch break to write up, it actually doesn't take a lot of effort and hand-wringing to agree with someone.

[SimonOrl]

Boosting

I would much prefer a dyable version of a set we already have in the game

[inkbarista]

Bumping this as well. This needs to be addressed.