Job feedback [pre-8.0 megathread]

[ty_taurus]

But what does \\'more DPS\\' actually mean? It isn\\'t going to do more damage than other healers, so it just means more DPS options than other healers, which it did get. No other healer has a Phlegma equivalent, or a Toxicon equivalent, or even a Pneuma equivalent. With DT it then got Psyche, the closest thing to this is Assize and Eukrasian Dyskrasia, the only healer with an on demand AoE DoT.

No Phlegma equivalent? White Mage has Assize and Misery. Scholar has Energy Drain and Ruin II which is significantly more versatile than Toxikon as well. Astrologian had an entire damage buffing system which has since been diminished in scale, but is still at least partially present. Also Lord of Crowns. And even if that wasn’t the case, the issue that we have been asking for is gameplay that isn’t almost entirely “spam glare/broil/malefic.”

“Spam Dosis, except 1 less time per 40 seconds” was not the answer. It’s not about doing more damage, it’s about having a job that actually has gameplay and doesn’t feel like a level 1 job for the majority of most encounters.

[Mikey_R]

No Phlegma equivalent? White Mage has Assize and Misery. Scholar has Energy Drain and Ruin II which is significantly more versatile than Toxikon as well. Astrologian had an entire damage buffing system which has since been diminished in scale, but is still at least partially present. Also Lord of Crowns. And even if that wasn’t the case, the issue that we have been asking for is gameplay that isn’t almost entirely “spam glare/broil/malefic.”

“Spam Dosis, except 1 less time per 40 seconds” was not the answer. It’s not about doing more damage, it’s about having a job that actually has gameplay and doesn’t feel like a level 1 job for the majority of most encounters.

Phlegma being a GCD that is on a 40 second cooldown that can stack up to 2 and does AoE damage cantered around the target that you have to be close to the enemy to use is equivalent to Assize that is an oGCD on a 40 second timer, that cannot stack and as well as dealing AoE damage around the user, also heals and restores WHM's MP, or Afflatus Misery that that is only able to be used every minute, as long as you spend the Lilies on potentially useless heals that can effectively be said have a cooldown of 20 seconds that stacks up to 3.

Oh, you want to go after Toxicon? The one where you have to use a GCDto apply a shield to get a stack for the resource to use it, as opposed to Energy Drain that you use to dump any remaining Aetherflow before Aetherflow comes off of cooldown or Ruin 2 that is a DPS loss for that GCD (Toxicon, fight dependant, might not be) and as you said, is far more flexible.

AST cards aren't even in the same ball park and is definitely not what you meant when you said DPS healer and Lord of Crowns being used every 2 minutes based on AST's Draw? What are you even comparing this to? The closest Sage would have is Psyche and that is a 60 second cast that isn't locked behind something else.

You have quite literally proven the point I made in that post in that you aren't looking for differences. You have concentrated on what you think makes them the same and just rolled with it, and, in my opinion, failed at that. Bear in mind, I haven't said there shouldn't be more work, I just disagree with the premise that they are the same and does provide options for the Sage.

[ty_taurus]

You have quite literally proven the point I made in that post in that you aren't looking for differences. You have concentrated on what you think makes them the same and just rolled with it, and, in my opinion, failed at that. Bear in mind, I haven't said there shouldn't be more work, I just disagree with the premise that they are the same and does provide options for the Sage.

In your previous post, you implied that Sage's goal of being more DPS oriented is inherently successful because no other healer had an equivalent to Phlegma, Toxikon, or Pneuma. Saying that tools like Assize, Energy Drain, or Lord of Crowns are "equivalent" is slightly misleading based on what I'm equating them to, which I will expand on. I am not focused on equating their functionality. Rather, I am equating each healer's access to a variety of offensive tools in general--tools with a similar volume of usage. The problem that has been criticized for now 6 years is that so much of healer gameplay is completely dominated by just spamming Glare and waiting large swaths of time before you can do anything else. One 40 second GCD nuke does not magically resolve that issue, and both Toxikon and Pneuma fail far worse at alleviating the issue. Pneuma is not a DPS tool. It is a burst healing tool. Toxikon has horrible optimization, and you often get only 3 uses of it across an entire fight because GCD barriers are Sage's last desperate act of survival, not their primary method of healing.

What I need is active gameplay that keeps me cycling through a modest, yet interesting selection of spells that are always applicable no matter how simple or easy the content gets. What I don't need is a commercial break between every transient heartbeat of gameplay that reminds my brain that I'm actually supposed to be having fun, and not roleplaying as a laser hair removal technician getting Barbara's legs ready for swimsuit season.

[Supersnow845]

Phlegma being a GCD that is on a 40 second cooldown that can stack up to 2 and does AoE damage cantered around the target that you have to be close to the enemy to use is equivalent to Assize that is an oGCD on a 40 second timer, that cannot stack and as well as dealing AoE damage around the user, also heals and restores WHM's MP, or Afflatus Misery that that is only able to be used every minute, as long as you spend the Lilies on potentially useless heals that can effectively be said have a cooldown of 20 seconds that stacks up to 3.

Oh, you want to go after Toxicon? The one where you have to use a GCDto apply a shield to get a stack for the resource to use it, as opposed to Energy Drain that you use to dump any remaining Aetherflow before Aetherflow comes off of cooldown or Ruin 2 that is a DPS loss for that GCD (Toxicon, fight dependant, might not be) and as you said, is far more flexible.

AST cards aren't even in the same ball park and is definitely not what you meant when you said DPS healer and Lord of Crowns being used every 2 minutes based on AST's Draw? What are you even comparing this to? The closest Sage would have is Psyche and that is a 60 second cast that isn't locked behind something else.

You have quite literally proven the point I made in that post in that you aren't looking for differences. You have concentrated on what you think makes them the same and just rolled with it, and, in my opinion, failed at that. Bear in mind, I haven't said there shouldn't be more work, I just disagree with the premise that they are the same and does provide options for the Sage.

No you have you just proven the opposite point in that you looking for pointless tiny differences and amounting them to important differences as if they actually necessitate class difference

E dyskrasia is a loss in 99% of situations, it’s literally a dead button in the closest sense of the word.

Toxicon has its closest analogue in ruin 2

Phlegma has parallels in misery, star, ED and assize

Psyche has parallels in assize and lord

When it comes down to it all healers still spam 1 button, refresh their DOT and basically use their very limited oGCD damage options on CD then distinguish themselves by their healing kit…….which SGE also copied from SCH

If you are selling something as a “DPS healer” I’m expected PCT or RDM complexity, not “I have one more non interactive oGCD damage option than the class I ripped off” especially since SGE’s oGCD’s have zero interactivity and little optimisation pathway. SCH with energy drain alone or WHM with Lilys have infinitely more optimisation than “2 phlegma’s in the burst window psyche on CD”