Crystal Tower Controversy: Should Syrcus and Labyrinth be synced to minimum iLv?

[Shistar]

Normal Raids Roulette starts at 60 and Alliance Raid Roulette should too. Crystal Tower Raids should be in the MSQ roulette now that's it's mandatory. It also needs to be reworked to be functional and engaging. [...] There is so much nothing to be done in most of those fights and it's insane.

This. This, this, this.
Honestly, if they just reduced the amount of time the boss just stands there looking dumb and casting auto attacks and actually doing some mechanics, it'd be much more interesting. Though, if they moved those ARs to the MSQ roulette I will be the happiest, since I'll never see them again! :P

[Valence]

If they did that no one would clear them in roulette because of the old encounter design. You think people know how to fight Behemoth for real? Or Glaslya? There can still be wipes to Angra Mainyu even though its mechanics are more in line with what we have today. No, what would happen is people would get Labyrinth in roulette, wipe to Bone Dragon 3 times then people would start leaving. Is it boring now? Yeah. But at the end of the day, the majority of people just want their alliance exp and tomes without having to think too hard. That's why people used the gear swap exploit to get Crystal Tower when you could still do that.

I mean, I played during a time where Bone Dragon couldn't be bruteforced. This only started appearing in SB, mid SB or early SHB I don't remember exactly.
People just went through Labyrinth just fine. Scarecrows about how people wiping time and time again on those bosses are just scarecrows. It's a question of maintaining game knowledge in the community. If you rolled back the whole game to HW levels everybody would struggle, but they'd relearn fast and it wouldn't be a problem anymore, like for any content once we're past the novelty.
But if the complaint is that people do actually wipe when seeing something the first few times or if there isn't enough knowledgeable people in the party to carry, then I do wonder what we're trying to achieve here? Just hand people an auto clear, it would have the benefit to be faster?

[Sorainthy]

This. This, this, this.
Honestly, if they just reduced the amount of time the boss just stands there looking dumb and casting auto attacks and actually doing some mechanics, it'd be much more interesting. Though, if they moved those ARs to the MSQ roulette I will be the happiest, since I'll never see them again! :P

As a returning player with a new account I disagree. Not because I do not want to have challenges but how they are currently designed.
50er MSQ reduced to NPC Helper or Single Player Content
50er MSQ Road to Ishguard reduced down to Single Player Content

And suddenly: Here do 24 Alliance or no progression.
I did the quests as I thought "ok it is just getting it available" But no it was not.
And to add the fun: Even when the message popsup that someone is there for the first time: No one cares. 23 Players (+1 new) rushing through, do not wait, do not explain, nothing. While I understand that is it as a given fact to be absolutly unbalanced in pov of previous MSQ that the design is highly questionable.
And I was lucky as a DPS. Imagine I would have continued my tank or a healer

And no "go read a guide" is not a good answer at all - while mandatory for real raid progression (and I do support) shall it not be for MSQ.

[angelar_]

The fact that they've refused to address anything about Crystal Tower for so long is just baffling. Like, fine, I get it, they think it's critical for MSQ (really don't agree personally, but whatever.) But like, they're also just not addressing anybody's complaints about getting it all the time, and it being excruciatingly boring. I just queued in to Alliance raids and it, of course, was Labyrinth of the Ancients. One person left immediately, then my entire Alliance ducked out when they had the opportunity to leave without being penalized due to the party not being full. This content is not good! It is not good for the game!

I don't understand how they have gone on a trip overhauling Main Scenario, updating tons of old dungeon bosses, but continuously ignore Crystal Tower. It needs some kind of solution, whatever that may look like! Even a simple fix like item level caps to bring LotA and ST in line with WoD would be a huge improvement!

[Mesarthim]

I just stop doing the roulette entirely once jobs are maxed for the expansion. Not sure what SE's goal was to make me voluntarily remove myself from the roulette pool for nearly 2 years but oh well.

[ServerCollaps]

crystal tower and laby are the only reasons why i queue for alliance rou. I rather take the quick 15 min in-out, then spending half of my lifetime in nier

[Valence]

Sometimes I do wish they reworked Crystal Tower to be more engaging and less of a steamroll due to powercreep and overgear, but then I remember what their reworks tend to do to older content, and I'm afraid to see the bone dragon suddenly be about stack and spread markers and it makes me shudder.

[ServerCollaps]

Sometimes I do wish they reworked Crystal Tower to be more engaging and less of a steamroll due to powercreep and overgear, but then I remember what their reworks tend to do to older content, and I'm afraid to see the bone dragon suddenly be about stack and spread markers and it makes me shudder.

the dungeon reworks are handled this way, because they have to ensure that the trust npcs can deal with it. 24 raids will never have trust npcs within, so they wouldnt do it that way

[Valence]

And you're sure about that? Maybe they're redesigning it that way because that's the way they want the game to be? Or maybe a combination of both perhaps who knows

[Shistar]

As a returning player with a new account I disagree. Not because I do not want to have challenges but how they are currently designed.
50er MSQ reduced to NPC Helper or Single Player Content
50er MSQ Road to Ishguard reduced down to Single Player Content

The NPC parties are completely optional, no one is forcing you to use them.


You can still choose to queue into the Duty Finder for any dungeons and trials. Some trials got turned into solo duties because they were so easy that it was stupid or they padded dungeon time way too much. Think Lahabrea and Rhitahtyn. It got so boring that players began trying to scare sprouts into thinking they had entered The Hardest Duty by spamming their savage macros and fake-despairing lol many of these benefitted from becoming solo duties since they also got a fresh coat of paint in the process.

And suddenly: Here do 24 Alliance or no progression.
I did the quests as I thought "ok it is just getting it available" But no it was not.

That is because the events of that raid become relevant again in the future, and because many people hadn't done it back when they gained access to the unlock quest, the part of the story that relied on you knowing what the Crystal Tower is and who the people involved in its research are simply landed flat on its face. They made the decision to make it mandatory so you won't be wondering who the hell these people are when they show up again treating you like they're your long-lost buddies lol

And to add the fun: Even when the message popsup that someone is there for the first time: No one cares. 23 Players (+1 new) rushing through, do not wait, do not explain, nothing. While I understand that is it as a given fact to be absolutly unbalanced in pov of previous MSQ that the design is highly questionable.
And I was lucky as a DPS. Imagine I would have continued my tank or a healer

No one can be bothered to wait because they see this god-forsaken raid every day they choose to queue into AR roulette. I think it's rude, yes, but I can't control or stop others from pulling the boss even when we know there are people watching the cutscene. This will continue happening in most other ARs because people can be really impatient sometimes and all it takes is one guy to pull the boss while the other 22 wait for you. The best you can do in the future is letting them know you're new (in alliance chat, not party) and asking them to please wait for your cutscene. If someone else notices you're new, they might remind the team to wait politely.


But no one will explain anything to you unless you ask, because we've had too many people get annoyed because they don't want to get spoiled on the mechs and we're not mind-readers to know in which group you sit. If you want something, ask politely and people will be happy to help you, but don't expect people to know you need help and that you want us to give it to you simply because you're new. People will have the sprout icon up until ShB, and many first-timers are also just people on their alt or want to figure it out themselves. If you want tips or an explanation ask for it and people will be happy to help you out!

And no "go read a guide" is not a good answer at all - while mandatory for real raid progression (and I do support) shall it not be for MSQ.

I don't know who told you you need a guide for any content above EX (and you can still do EX, Savage, Ultimates blind if you join the appropriate group for it), but you really don't. If you die, nothing bad will happen, you will simply get picked up by a healer and you get to continue as if nothing happened. You will learn by making mistakes and being challenged by the game, which is kind of the point of pitting you against stronger and stronger enemies. The chances of a 24-man team wiping because specifically you died are slim to none, so don't worry and just try to enjoy yourself. Like I said, if you're confused just ask the people in the duty and they will answer you.