The State of Machinist in DT - Let's talk about it (again).

[Shurrikhan]

Trying to convince them that they should change the way they balance jobs, instead going for major and frequent buffs, is as effective as asking a door to open.

???

It's the same time until the next buff regardless of whether you apply potency changes or create an entirely new raidbuff for MCH. Further potency changes as inbalance demands would likewise be the same after adding any new raidbuff. That is unchanged. Adding any raidbuff would simply one such tuning change or part thereof.

That said, adding a raidbuff (most likely atop whatever potency changes are necessary to finish off the intended buff) simply happens to be more work than mere potency changes and therefore, by your own prior reasoning, even less likely to happen.

Again, any incremental buffs we've ever seen to other classes create less than a 0.2% buff to Bard or Dancer. You would have ten or more times that between two identically played runs in identical context. It is irrelevant. There is no need to rebalance MCH for every single time another buffed class is buffed.

Unless BRD and DNC start to get a hell of a lot more of their total contribution from buffing others, adding a raid buff to MCH likewise isn't going to reduce the frequency of necessary rebalances; that merely still comes down to how often they decide they'd rather buff nearly everyone rather than simply nerfing outliers, increasing their workload and chance at unintended problems twenty-fold.

Ok, at this point I'm convinced you're not being serious.

Likewise...

_______________________

For the last time, I don't particularly care which way they go; MCH used to have raidbuffs, after all. But to say that the solution to the devs being unwilling to take the time to apply the easiest solution for immediate balance right now within the next X months is to instead have them, in the exact same timeframe, go the much more demanding route of creating and tuning a new skill to MCH to handle the missing damage... is nonsensical.

No, the raid buff will not hereafter be self-balancing. It is not a greater short-term investment now that would require less work in the long term overall; it is, for all intents and purposes, just one potency-per-average-minute buff, simply via a skill you have to make from scratch instead of one that already exists.

Look at the number of tuning changes Bard's buffs had to go through. Unless specifically playing at less relative skill and/or ilvl than your party, indirect contribution is purely one extra tool that provides some amount of damage on average -- like any other tool added or any buff to an existing skill likewise does for, ultimately, the same total contribution. All it does, at most, is make MCH more similar to BRD, such that it can be excused to have a nearer performance at very high percentiles despite being easier for the party to optimize, increasing homogeneity slightly in order to take a tiny bit of ammo away from BRD mains if they complain about MCH catching up to their total contribution.

I'm not asking for more frequent balance than you're asking for. I'm simply pointing out that a raidbuff would not reduce the need for that any more than, say, adding another CD-locked attack would. It is no more or less a Band-Aid than a single round of potency buffs.

[xbahax92]

I can't put it to words, I'm so happy. This fixes everything. /s

[Carighan]

I can't put it to words, I'm so happy. This fixes everything. /s

As the explanation even says, this is specifically an AoE buff for four jobs for M6S reasons.

[nguyentri11]

There are a number of things already mentioned in this thread that they could've done that would not only make using AoE on MCH satisfying but also accomplishing the dev's goal of buffing AoE damage.

[Shyxx]

And the math says Auto Crossbow is now only a gain on 8+ targets over blazing shot because it doesn't reduce the cd of double check and checkmate. These people just don't know what to do with this job or they dont care or both.

[brinn12]

Counting to 8 to change GCDs is just ridiculous. The complaints about Flamethrower being weak and disjointed from the rest of the kit were met with making yet another skill useless. At this point, I won't be surprised if they just add cleave damage to Blazing Shot in 8.0 and delete Checkmate/Double Check.

[bundythenoob]

totally agree with the points made in this thread. MCH's single target rotation can be fun to execute due to the increased GCD speed, but the job's AoE really suffers from jank, and the lack of interactions between our various tools needs to be addressed.
playing on one of my alts the other day got me thinking:


I would like to see MCH get a new enemy-debuffing attack similar to NIN's new Mug, something that will allow it to provide party utility while still retaining the selfish DPS angle
I think giving MCH some enemy-debuffing attacks would fit the job nicely in providing selfish-oriented support. Dismantle is pretty neat and it could use a buff too, maybe give it to us way earlier and give it a trait to match Tactician's 90s
alternatively, they could introduce a new skill that works similar to NIN's new Trick Attack, something that allows only MCH to deal increased dmg to enemies for a short time



also extremely minor nitpick, but if BRD gets to play a cute little flute for their Peloton, I want to be able to shoot a big revolver in the air for my Peloton! give us more guns, we've got enough gadgets!

[Emitans]

I think it would be cool if Machinists could set up a turret and one feature of the turret would be causing an enemy to take more damage

[Carighan]

I think it would be cool if Machinists could set up a turret and one feature of the turret would be causing an enemy to take more damage

I mean other than the graphics, that just sounds like a variant on Chain Stratagem, no?

[Valence]

It's a little sad to read people actually suggesting MCH to get more focus on enemy debuffs, which the class was essentially designed as in HW (dismantle, rend mind, suppressive fire, head graze, leg graze, foot graze, hypercharge turret vulnerability up, and in pvp: between the eyes, stun gun). We're coming to a loop.