@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[enthauptet]

Difficulty =/= casual. You need a premade party, scheduling, etc for the challenge floors. The bad side of the random traps is a run can go sideways to a wipe very quick 'wasting' a good chunk of time reclimbing. I've seen many not reattempt because they don't want that time lost again. The best way to imagine casuals: is it easily picked up and put down? No? Not casual.

With a light party and a clean run, sure it is casual friendly, now find 3 others to 'marry' until you clear the 8+ (hoh&EO starting at 21 being less time consuming to clear to 100 than starting at 51 going to 200 in potd) duties with no wipes in a row. Could be 15mins each duty could be up to an hour depending on the run, luck, skill etc. That equates to near 7 hours per attempt for hoh/EO double for potd. Now schedule that with 3 others. Sure, it can be picked up whenever, but I've personally had 7 saves reset because of scheduling issues and needing to use the save.

I have a bunch of friends that meet up for like an hour or two once a week to clear even criterion savage so the argument about time holds no water. If you want to clear stuff quickly you need more time but that doesn't mean it can't be done without a large time investment every day/week. Either way you have to spend time to clear content whether it's what I mentioned, the moon base thing, etc. Either you invest the time to get the rewards or you don't that's the difference. I REALLY dislike PVP in this game so I never touch it but that's my decision so I just don't get those rewards and I don't complain about it being here or not getting them.

[Uzephi]

I have a bunch of friends that meet up for like an hour or two once a week to clear even criterion savage so the argument about time holds no water. If you want to clear stuff quickly you need more time but that doesn't mean it can't be done without a large time investment every day/week. Either way you have to spend time to clear content whether it's what I mentioned, the moon base thing, etc. Either you invest the time to get the rewards or you don't that's the difference. I REALLY dislike PVP in this game so I never touch it but that's my decision so I just don't get those rewards and I don't complain about it being here or not getting them.

You do realize you just compared what you call 'casual' against something SE named 'Savage.' The fact you cannot pick it up and complete it on *your* time and have to accommodate 3 others (edit: and 'marry' them through the whole process, no way to easily solo it, as said, more people have epic hero than Necromancer/Lone Hero/Queen titles) to complete it with *any* semblance of ease makes it not casual friendly, please don't compare what you want to call casual with content named "Savage."

[AvoSturmfaust]

You do realize you just compared what you call 'casual' against something SE named 'Savage.' The fact you cannot pick it up and complete it on *your* time and have to accommodate 3 others (edit: and 'marry' them through the whole process, no way to easily solo it, as said, more people have epic hero than Necromancer/Lone Hero/Queen titles) to complete it with *any* semblance of ease makes it not casual friendly, please don't compare what you want to call casual with content named "Savage."

Sorry but if you want to do everything "SOLO" you may be in the wrong game, its a MMORPG if you dont like social interactions or to play with others its clearly not for you

[Mawlzy]

Sorry but if you want to do everything "SOLO" you may be in the wrong game, its a MMORPG if you dont like social interactions or to play with others its clearly not for you

Why people play MMORPGs solo, and why it's a good idea.

https://youtu.be/AcGezDYNLIU?si=7Xjf09jxhWxHQybu

[Uzephi]

Sorry but if you want to do everything "SOLO" you may be in the wrong game, its a MMORPG if you dont like social interactions or to play with others its clearly not for you

I find it funny you think I am implying I don't want social interactions or even want to attempt that content solo. That isn't the case. I'm forced to do it solo because no 'casual' buddies of mine will stick through two bad sessions. After 15hrs invested, and little reward and still two floor sets away from the prize really demotivates quite a few people, sadly. The issue isn't about the social aspect, it's finding others dedicated enough to actually tackle the challenge floors and 'progress' through them, which means you might not clear it the first few times, so buckle up and get ready to spend 30hra of your life learning floor 181-200 of potd since one wipe means restarting from the start (or 51 if you choose to skip 5 of the 20 duties this challenge has)

Imagine a savage raid, but you 'need' to stick with the same people the whole time to keep your prog points, replace one person is a huge liability in the higher floors if the new recruit isn't in sync with your group or didn't study that cone of the mammoth isn't a cone but a 180 cleave and wipes your party.

[AvoSturmfaust]

I find it funny you think I am implying I don't want social interactions or even want to attempt that content solo. That isn't the case. I'm forced to do it solo because no 'casual' buddies of mine will stick through two bad sessions. After 15hrs invested, and little reward and still two floor sets away from the prize really demotivates quite a few people, sadly. The issue isn't about the social aspect, it's finding others dedicated enough to actually tackle the challenge floors and 'progress' through them, which means you might not clear it the first few times, so buckle up and get ready to spend 30hra of your life learning floor 181-200 of potd since one wipe means restarting from the start (or 51 if you choose to skip 5 of the 20 duties this challenge has)

Imagine a savage raid, but you 'need' to stick with the same people the whole time to keep your prog points, replace one person is a huge liability in the higher floors if the new recruit isn't in sync with your group or didn't study that cone of the mammoth isn't a cone but a 180 cleave and wipes your party.

Then i misunderstood it, im sorry, it sounded for me like you didnt want any social interaction and want to solo everything, my bad

[Uzephi]

Then i misunderstood it, im sorry, it sounded for me like you didnt want any social interaction and want to solo everything, my bad

No worries, it's content most don't touch, and the' story' floors are mainly what most of the player base actually does. It's quite difficult to find people who understand the lethality of the higher floors who actually will do them with you, for the points I have said in this thread.

Not many 'casuals' will have the dedication to learning those higher floors, even some raiders in my FC won't touch DDs because of how easy the first 60% of the floors are. You don't even need a tank (or kite if a DPS running solo) until floor 151 (potd) or floor 61 (HoH/EO), so quite a few players feel the rest of the floors are as easy as the story floors, or just slightly harder. So, when your party wipes on a mob that starts two shotting your DPS and healer, the group falls apart because they were led to believe this content was 'easy' only to get smacked around on the final two floor sets because everybody underestimates 'challenge floors.'

[enthauptet]

You do realize you just compared what you call 'casual' against something SE named 'Savage.' The fact you cannot pick it up and complete it on *your* time and have to accommodate 3 others (edit: and 'marry' them through the whole process, no way to easily solo it, as said, more people have epic hero than Necromancer/Lone Hero/Queen titles) to complete it with *any* semblance of ease makes it not casual friendly, please don't compare what you want to call casual with content named "Savage."

Your post was about time investment (organizing, clearing and how reprog a big waste of time) making things not casual friendly and not "difficulty" of content itself so I framed my post in that context.

The Garleans very obviously do not want our help.

For sure but they can do whatever they want with the story.

[Uzephi]

Your post was about time investment (organizing, clearing and how reprog a big waste of time) making things not casual friendly and not "difficulty" of content itself so I framed my post in that context.


For sure but they can do whatever they want with the story.

It's still not casual friendly. Yes, with proper time and spurts given, you can slowly progress. I know. It is still very manipulative to frame your post in a way with harder content with time commitments. This is an MMO, Deep Dungeons are a rogue lite in an MMO. The easy floors are casual friendly, even some of the early challenge floors, I am not debating that.

I implore you, take your time on floorset 191-200 and tell me if you complete it in time.... Casually.... No rush, kill all enemies, open all chests. All guides advise against this even in a full party, again, how is that casual friendly? You're making examples with completely different content in something that is being debated as considered casual, maybe pick some of the stupid grinds crafting has if you wanted to pick something that took time, not difficult content as you did

Because as tone dead as your original statement was, I was saying the content inside these dungeons aren't difficult, it's a rogue lite, what makes it "difficult" is when RNG is not on your side and wipes your party. I have been with plenty of people who won't touch it because of that factor. You could be the best parser with amazing reflexes and still die to something stupid, even on the earlier floors. Many groups fell apart not because of the difficulty, but because of strings of bad luck wiping us on the higher floors.

Edit: and again, progression in those criterion dungeons is completely different than seeing a new boss on floor 80 of HoH and learning or needing to research said previous guides I'm here to play a game I'll try and fail and restart. I'm fine with that. Ask anyone you consider casual if restarting from floor 1 and going back to floor 80 is worth it (even in easy content, remember this would be 7 duties in) when you barely got any rewards so far? How long does it normally take after a failed prog attempt in dungeons, raids, etc?

[enthauptet]

It's still not casual friendly. Yes, with proper time and spurts given, you can slowly progress. I know. It is still very manipulative to frame your post in a way with harder content with time commitments. This is an MMO, Deep Dungeons are a rogue lite in an MMO. The easy floors are casual friendly, even some of the early challenge floors, I am not debating that.

I implore you, take your time on floorset 191-200 and tell me if you complete it in time.... Casually.... No rush, kill all enemies, open all chests. All guides advise against this even in a full party, again, how is that casual friendly? You're making examples with completely different content in something that is being debated as considered casual, maybe pick some of the stupid grinds crafting has if you wanted to pick something that took time, not difficult content as you did

Because as tone dead as your original statement was, I was saying the content inside these dungeons aren't difficult, it's a rogue lite, what makes it "difficult" is when RNG is not on your side and wipes your party. I have been with plenty of people who won't touch it because of that factor. You could be the best parser with amazing reflexes and still die to something stupid, even on the earlier floors. Many groups fell apart not because of the difficulty, but because of strings of bad luck wiping us on the higher floors.

Edit: and again, progression in those criterion dungeons is completely different than seeing a new boss on floor 80 of HoH and learning or needing to research said previous guides I'm here to play a game I'll try and fail and restart. I'm fine with that. Ask anyone you consider casual if restarting from floor 1 and going back to floor 80 is worth it (even in easy content, remember this would be 7 duties in) when you barely got any rewards so far? How long does it normally take after a failed prog attempt in dungeons, raids, etc?

At least be genuine and don't call me tone deaf when you are moving goalposts. I don't have anything to add to this since it's going nowhere.