Dear SE: Please listen to actual players, not just content creators

[xbahax92]

On a population if hundreds of thousands, if not million players, I can't believe that there is always at least one person dissatisfied enough with something to give feedback about it. Utterly shocking.
You remind me of those people that will look you into the eyes IRL and tell you to just leave your country if you're not happy with how something is handled.

If it stops the constant whining? But it's okay, lets compare a game to a country lmao

Either way, I take this opportunity to quit the forums. I leave the "discussions" to you super heroes. Hopefully, you're going to find that middle ground without slandering current game enjoyers.

[SoleilAlphi]

content creators are people who get money based on engagement, if engagement is higher trash talking something, they will, if engagement is higher loving something, they will. there is very little honesty in the world of streamers. the GCBTW seems to not be able to have opinions without being spoonfed by content creators tbh.

good luck finding the middle ground indeed

[AurisNix]

Its kinda ironic since the first tier of savage was way too easy (admitted by them), there is no ultimate in 7.3 either and FRU had alot of polemic around it, there are no good shots here and just pure incompetence by SE development neither casuals or hardcore are in a good spot, and i say this from the perspective from someone that became a raider out of boredom, the quality of content its awful extremely awful since EW for very simple mistakes but must importantly out of fear of taking risks.

1. EW was boring only Savage raids were fun but anything else had extreme flaws (V/C dungeons, EO, Island) braindead alliances, dungeons and relics.

2. DT stepped up a little on dungeons, but still feel souless, OC is a disaster not for casuals only but hardcore as well. They had the perfect system in bozja but they downgraded everything. Probably only chaotic was semi decent if it wasn't that has tons of body checks.

Everything since EW seems untested is like they dont play their game anymore. But also cuz they have this mentally of caring only JP players by making every piece of content to last less than a week.

Look at shb relics, it was all grind but was accessible anyone could do it at any pace, some steps were awful, but we were told exactly what to do and was good. OC they decided to do grind with rng? Like what in the hell and after that just tomes again, yeah got 10 extra atmas useless after the first relic. Forked Tower an overall toxic experience because they clearly didn't test it and tried to replicated BA. They released chaotic how in the hell they didn't do something similar to that and have it on the duty finder or why other large scale dungeons aren't in duty finder, like if you ever wanna do CLL, Dal or Delubrum very good luck cuz its behind very dumb systems rather than do the easier thing and just put a que to it. Anything wrong in this game is for their incompetence and trying to be innovative but no they are just putting walls into very cool content rather than make it accesible. And Content creators are affected by it as well cuz it also all comes down to raid log, thats no fun at all cuz its a sign that there is nothing to do

[Valence]

Either way, I take this opportunity to quit the forums. I leave the "discussions" to you super heroes. Hopefully, you're going to find that middle ground without slandering current game enjoyers.

I apologize if that was offensive.

[Amarande]

content creators are people who get money based on engagement, if engagement is higher trash talking something, they will, if engagement is higher loving something, they will. there is very little honesty in the world of streamers. the GCBTW seems to not be able to have opinions without being spoonfed by content creators tbh.

This hardly even feels like it's just an issue with XIV and the "GCBTW" anymore. It's really practically every pay-to-play game at this point.

I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've successfully recruited somebody to a traditional paid game lately, including FFXIV. You know, like, friends, family, coworkers. The sort of word of mouth that USED to get people to play a game. Most of my friends have not been much more successful in that matter, almost all the successful "come play this with me!" I've seen in that now apparently quaint manner are for free to plays like Once Human or Palia. Genshin was big at one point. Okay, a few people bought Uno, but that's just a few dollars lol. Or often folks just even do an ad hoc voice chat game session in Discord. For paid games, it seems people now overwhelmingly either follow the social media trends, or they simply stick to the game they're already playing.

Which means that if streamers aren't playing your game, it's rapidly pretty much either becoming "either your business model is F2P with In App Purchases or you're headed to the 'maybe somebody will randomly buy it from the bargain bin or during a Steam sale'" world.

And then streamers skew super hardcore which is further helped along by the fact that if you are a successful streamer, you don't need a day job which frees you from most of the issues that keep people from being as hardcore gamers as we used to be ...

[ObsidianRex23]

TL;DR - I agree 100% and I don’t want to see this game follow the same path as Destiny.

Agreed 100%. I’m a former Destiny 2 player who’s played since 2021. From first-hand experience I can tell you that the game is the most heavily influenced by content creator/streamer sourced feedback I have ever seen, and as you can guess, these creators and streamers are always demanding more difficulty. Really the only time you see feedback from casual players implemented in the game is when they’re related to quality of life features like in-game loadouts, which took 10 years to get. There’s a certain streamer, Saltagreppo, who’s notorious for contributing to some of the worst difficulty spikes and loot stinginess the game has seen in recent years, and the game is a miserable experience for it. There are plenty of creators/streamers who have contributed to this but he’s especially bad about it as he stands on the opposite side of pretty much anything and everything casual players want.

I say all of this not to target Saltagreppo or complain about him, but to highlight my agreement and the point that developers listening to hardcore players drives away casual players. I’ve watched in real time as less players returned to Destiny each year and season as they implemented more of that hardcore players’ demands. Increased difficulty of patrol zones (the open world), stepping back from the feature most demanded by casual players: weapon crafting, mobile damage phases that render an entire Super (think of it as each individual players’ LB) useless, and more. Casual players spent years begging Bungie for more casual content, to stop just listening to the people who no-life it for a living, and to be a bit more generous with loot. When they were ignored, they gave up and went to go play something else. I’d hate to see the same happen to this game.

[enthauptet]

TL;DR - I agree 100% and I don’t want to see this game follow the same path as Destiny.

Drip-feed content model to milk monetization is what killed destiny more than anything, it's why my friends and I all quit playing during witch queen because the content loop of mission -> bland repeat activity-> mission -> bland repeat activity every week was extremely boring after like the 89th season of it. You can only reskin the same exact seasonal mission so many times lol, plus they usually overtune it so they're super tedious to do at the start with blueberries that can barely even aim. I had one friend who kept playing he said don't bother buying light fall the story is embarrassingly bad and as someone who mainly played for the story I haven't gone back. It's a shame because after year 1 it was really great though the loot system in forsaken is the worst I've ever experienced and even makes FF14 look like a gold mine. The first 2 weeks leading up to last wish I got for every drop from a pinnacle that week the SAME ITEM SLOT LOL I mean c'mon lol. I've never heard of this salto person are they a newer d2 streamer?

That being said bungo is definitely bad at taking feedback and mixing that with internal expectations (destiny 2 year 1, marathon lol).

That reminds me, D2 warmind actually did have its own forked tower, escalation protocol where you had to game the system (on PC) to queue in with people to try to get your friends in so all 9 of you could play together because it was impossible to do with randoms. Warmind was pretty great, we got the whisper too which was awesome and super hard.

[Gember]

Xenosys responded to this thread in case anyone would like to hear his opinion. (He also visited a other thread that was posted recently about scheduling updates, so this is a 2 topic video.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U-ndT9rxUA

Just a heads up, he does not agree with this post and is pretty blunt about it. I just figured people should hear his side of the coin about this topic.

[Bitmoar]

Xenosys responded to this thread in case anyone would like to hear his opinion. (He also visited a other thread that was posted recently about scheduling updates, so this is a 2 topic video.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U-ndT9rxUA

Just a heads up, he does not agree with this post and is pretty blunt about it. I just figured people should hear his side of the coin about this topic.

Well we can all rest assured that baldy will never run out of content. No ultimate? Just spend another 6 months reacting.

[nessamiku]

As a casual/midcore player I found the 100 expert dungeons really fun and more challenging than usual. Same with the raid tiers, it felt almost perfect. But I'd like a maybe 15-20% harder version of what we got in the normal Raids. Also Introduce a thing like mythic + or any other way to get the best gear but savage. In wow they have delves for instance, challenging small solo Dungeons, almost like the Variant dungeons, but they actually give you good rewards.

I want something to do that is challenging and rewarding, but does not mean I have to sit in party finder or find a static. Is that really too much to ask? I started doing PotD, but the rewards of these Deep dungeons also seem lackluster.