Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[Kaurhz]

Self awareness taking an extended holiday in this thread I see.

[Watai]

The one thing I will say is that you are refunded the cipher if you don't make it in.

Yes you are 100% right, but in this case they never said they were a premade, so we tagged in assuming they were random groups or just random players, and it's once we were in that they showed it was a premade by talking about "coordination" and that we "sniped", letting us dead on the floor making us use scrolls for nothing, so they are actively griefing by letting us rot on the floor while we still have 3 revive left, making us lose an OC lvl, and making us lose our Scrolls.
The Alchemist revive is instant and only has 5 sec cd, it requires no items. They are just griefing.

[RuriStone]

That. And apparently the snipers seem to hate being left dead. If you don't mind, sure. I don't mind leaving leechers and snipers dead until they either stop doing it or get good enough to somehow pull their weight.

The "no communication, they could've all been randoms" doesn't track. It doesn't track because this content is indeed being organized outside of FFXIV for the most part, organizing inside is less likely, so the onus is on you to not inconvenience 48 people.

If it was 24/24, whoever came second should leave tbh. They did that for BA. "Is this instance taken?". That easy. But as long as you're under 24 or even 16 people, do not think you deserve priority over groups that organize and let you enter in the first place. You get your cipher back when you reinstance. It ain't that deep.

Why would I stop doing it? And yes obviously I'd get good with practice just the same way you and everyone else does with everything in the game. What they dislike about being left dead is the toxicity of it shown to them by other players who originally they were working with to clear and as thanks they get sneered and jeered at. it's rude and unhelpful it's against tos too but some actively encourage it to try to force people to play the game the way they do.

[0blivion]

I guess I'll try one last time. If you, as a sniper, are in the run and do not know boss 2, you are very likely to wipe the entire raid. Boss 3, hallways and bridges, too. Keeping you alive (that is, healing and ressing you) is a risk to the run.

[SaltyDaddy]

Why would I stop doing it? And yes obviously I'd get good with practice just the same way you and everyone else does with everything in the game. What they dislike about being left dead is the toxicity of it shown to them by other players who originally they were working with to clear and as thanks they get sneered and jeered at. it's rude and unhelpful it's against tos too but some actively encourage it to try to force people to play the game the way they do.

I don't think there is anything in TOS telling us, that people are expected to raise dead players. But you can prove me wrong.

[Mawlzy]

I don't think there is anything in TOS telling us, that people are expected to raise dead players. But you can prove me wrong.

I realize it's a long thread, but I believe there are 3 or 4 different posts highlighting multiple parts of ToS that indicate this is a punishable offence.

[RuriStone]

It is about being polite from both sides. If one side kindly ask, they want to do premade, and you insist on going in... I don't think those people are the real problem. Problem is SE made this system and it allows toxicity to spread. You wanna tell us, if you see some private ceremony in public space (these happen), where you are comforted that it is private and you still go and eat their cake... Dunno. That's more toxic than them in my opinion.

I think you are not even planning on actually doing the raid. You just want to make people mad and that is all.

Like lots of people have said before just accept random people might end up in your premade thing because the instance is open to all. Pretty ridiculous to suggest I just want to make people mad im not the one calling people names or judging them on how they play the game.

[Aravell]

I realize it's a long thread, but I believe there are 3 or 4 different posts highlighting multiple parts of ToS that indicate this is a punishable offence.

I want to point out that every part of the ToS that people highlighted mentions being in a group. Being in the same instance doing the same content doesn't mean you're in a group, alliance raids have separate party frames for the other 2 alliances to indicate you're in a group, but OC content does not.

Would it be fine to report every healer and chemist for not raising you when you're all doing the same CE together?

People are so trigger happy with the report button nowadays.

[Mawlzy]

I want to point out that every part of the ToS that people highlighted mentions being in a group. Being in the same instance doing the same content doesn't mean you're in a group, alliance raids have separate party frames for the other 2 alliances to indicate you're in a group, but OC content does not.

Would it be fine to report every healer and chemist for not raising you when you're all doing the same CE together?

People are so trigger happy with the report button nowadays.

I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty of GMs who will view being in the same instance as qualifying as "the same group."

Which means if I die in a CE I can report every single chemist, healer, RDM, SMN and person who has one of the former levelled for teleporting back to the start rather than raising me?

I'd say there's a qualitative difference between an instanced dungeon which can be failed and open world content, but as Kaurhz notes the ToS allow some room for interpretation.

It's the same sort of issue we have in Frontline in defining "lethargic play."

[Kaurhz]

ToS is really too nebulous in the fact that you really could make a case for such behavior violating the ToS, e.g.,

Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."

Just in the same way that if you wanted to make a case for someone 'sniping' runs under the following:

・Expressions considered impolite or against common sense
・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for others
"intentionally ignoring the community-specific rules and guidelines while being aware of them" or "unwilling to learn of them," a report can be made.

It is literally is a case of whatever the side of the bed the person reviewing the report woke up on.

That being said, I would not be surprised if some people find themselves getting a warning.