Playing dungeons with a friend + NPCs

[TaleraRistain]

Are you sure about that?

And what is one particular mechanic that change introduces? Exaflares. A mechanic commonly seen in newer content.

[TaleraRistain]

It's worth pointing out that a lot of changes I feared did not happen in the Dawntrail side dungeon revamps:
- Bees still do Final Sting. We all assumed the worst that they'd remove it.
- Secret areas of Qarn still exist.
- The first boss of Qarn still does Doom. Also feared they wouldn't keep that in a new player dungeon.
- The bosses in Halitali and Qarn otherwise are just more functional versions of what they were, that don't suffer due to battle system/gear changes over the year.

The only change that I didn't like was we no longer drag the trash to the platforms. My guess is this was done so that Duty Support doesn't have to be made to position them, which would likely be difficult given how much players struggled with it.

Nobody was dragging the trash to the platforms before the change unless they absolutely had to and then only fighting the thing they absolutely had to drag and kill there. Then they would just drag the rest and let things fall off if they reached the end of their tethers. The scale mechanic was completely ignored. Players were just fighting the extra mobs.

The first Halatali boss actually has protean mechanics now instead of just being something players burned down while ignoring the adds coming in from the sides. The side adds can't be ignored on the final boss now either since they are the trigger to make the boss targetable again. Previously groups would burn the fire sprites and ignore the other adds.

And the Qarn final boss adds chain players to them so you can't just dodge the line aoes and if you don't kill the adds that spawn in the contained areas that you can't get into after they close, the combined damage wipes the party. So quite a few of the changes in the two most recent dungeons were "You aren't to be able to ignore this mechanic anymore like you used to".

[TaleraRistain]

Which is why revised Cutter's Cry is going to be hilarious if it forces players to fight the mobs between the first and second boss from now on, or if it makes the add in the first fight an actual threat instead of people just ignoring it to burn down the queen. Because I'd bet money that most of the people whining about it being redone for NPCs are ACTUALLY complaining that they won't be able to cheese the dungeon anymore.

Also worth reminding that this is a post-instant-Esuna game now, so maybe they'll make that Sludge debuff extra spicy in the second fight to remind people "yes, you have that spell, now please use it or die".

I remember back in ye olden days with Cutter's Cry where I as the healer was expected to grab up the adds and run them around so the party could focus on the boss. It would be funny if that made a return.

And yeah I'm curious to see how they change the sand rooms so you can't just have the tank drag the mobs to the sand portal and then leave.

I could also see Sludge getting some sort of upgrade and possibly some more interesting mechanics on the chimera, though he was already pretty spicy for that level of dungeon.

[DeltaCyan]

Pretty sure if Duty Support (and Squadrons and Trusts) didn't exist, Dynamis would be even deader if not abandoned because a bunch of people would have gotten stuck in early ARR without any parties.

I feel like it's the opposite. More people playing with NPC's means less people actually playing with others. Less people playing with others makes the game feel more dead.

[Mawlzy]

I feel like it's the opposite. More people playing with NPC's means less people actually playing with others. Less people playing with others makes the game feel more dead.

For me it's the vast open spaces of the overworld, where you can fly around all afternoon and never run into another player, nor anything interesting to do.

I guess this is why people hang around in Limsa, although I can't personally see the appeal.

[ASkellington]

And what is one particular mechanic that change introduces? Exaflares. A mechanic commonly seen in newer content.

And... that's not a good trade off nor proves your point.

Because in my opinion, if bots are as advanced as people say they are, the platform shouldn't have changed at all and we'd have Exaflares added on.

So I'm more inclined to believe bots aren't as advanced at some things as you say they are thus they limit the dungeon design in some way hence why people do not want their inclusion and rather their removal and are rightfully against their existence.

I mean NPCs are pretty much here to stay whether or not I want them. But I do think people are justifibly angry that the dev team is going to limit dungeon design because "if the bots can't do it" or "we can't program them to do it well" its not going to happen.

[Mawlzy]

I mean NPCs are pretty much here to stay whether or not I want them. But I do think people are justifibly angry that the dev team is going to limit dungeon design because "if the bots can't do it" or "we can't program them to do it well" its not going to happen.

I would agree with you if this were true, but it isn't. An NPC can always perform mechanics better than a human, including resolving mechanics that would be physically impossible for any human.

[ASkellington]

I would agree with you if this were true, but it isn't. An NPC can always perform mechanics better than a human, including resolving mechanics that would be physically impossible for any human.

Only because all the mechanics here for them are "stand at X and you automatically dodge".

Taking the example that was posted with Hraesvelgr as an example, the original map has many platforms with winds on the edges for a player to jump on to to move to other platforms.

In all my times of doing dungeons with NPCs where we had these none of them do so. They just teleport to the player. So are you telling me that the dev team intentionally doesn't program the bots to use the same jumping mechanic as the players on purpose or are you telling me that they cannot properly program the bots to do so in a manner they like so they don't bother.

Because if its the latter then that is a limitation on the bots and thus, say it with me, inhibits dungeon design. Does it not?

[Nighthawky2010]

No more NPCs, please. Duty support needs to be removed for the sake of the game.

I definitely DISAGREE with your statement. I enjoy the NPCs when it comes to dungeon content.

SQUADRONS - I still enjoy doing dungeon runs with the squadron. I still get squadron buffs. I can go through the dungeons very quickly. What pisses me off to no end is that SE wont build up the squadrons & ranks. It's a missed opportunity to add more dungeons, rankings, & rewards.

DUTY SUPPORT & TRUSTS: I wish they were a little more powerful & could do AOEs, but I enjoy using them when it comes to new dungeons, a few of the trials that are TRUST can be used in.

The purpose of these NPCs is for players to use in dungeons run at their own pace, no looooong queue times, no pressure from other players, get all the gear for yourself, etc.

I understand this MMORPG, but I have always considered this game, since I have been playing for the past 10 years, as a single-player MMORPG. Most everything in the game is solo, with the exceptions of TRIALS, RAIDS, ALLIANCES, & EXPLORATION CONTENT.

I wish SE would use NPCs for old content, like POTD & HOH, where the queue times are more than 30 minutes. I'm trying to get into the VARIANT dungeons for the first time, but have failed because no one seems to do the older one anymore. It would be for SE to give an option of using NPCs for the older variant dungeons.

Basically, TRUSTS, DUTY SUPPORT, & SQUADRONS are used as options!! We need OPTIONS!

[ASkellington]

Basically, TRUSTS, DUTY SUPPORT, & SQUADRONS are used as options!! We need OPTIONS!

The problem is NPCs aren't used as options. If they were properly used as options Trusts would be the metaphorical easy mode with less and/or slower mechanics for people who want to get past dungeons/trials/whatever and skip to the story while player filled dungeons are normal or medium difficulty.

They unfortunately not. What we see in Trusts we get in dungeons, which means dungeons tied to the MSQ are not allowed to be above a certain difficulty. Which is an issue for people like me who want harder dungeons but aren't getting them. And before someone brings it up V/C isn't what I'm asking for (though I am happy that Criterion Savage exists for 4-man savage content, which was missing).

SE made this problem, and SE isn't going to fix it. Especially now that they made the changes after the fact. It'd be nice if we actually had modes for dungeons up to and including Savage versions, but we don't. Hence the friction people have with the Trust system.