Forked Tower is making me quit the game

[TaleraRistain]

I'm sure the raiding community includes many pleasant and helpful people.

Unfortunately, the last week or so we have had a procession of Discord raiders marching through the FT threads defending the vigilante "justice" they hand out, and expressing some of the most toxic sentiments I have heard in this game.

I don't want to be within 100 malms of those attitudes.

I dunno I don't check or anything but I have my suspicions some of them aren't actual Savage or Ultimate raiders at all just by some of the things they've said.

And hi \o You know at least one helpful raider. If you ever do want to get into things, just find me in game. I dislike salt when raiding because it's counter-productive to what we're trying to do and I surround myself with likeminded individuals.

[Catwho]

By rule, you are required to play at least eight hours a day and have acolytes in your stream chat who will fill the instance with you.

Even that doesn't work - Cider Spider was lamenting that he hasn't been able to "scam" people into entering it with him when he's streaming, no matter how much he begs.

[Colter_Hildibrand]

what full pug group has cleared FT? hell, what full pug group has cleared the 1st boss?

I have not cleared yet, but I have been pugging through PF and clearing bosses. This is absolutely doable with random players. The "discord only" and "premade only" and "static only" mentality is a detriment in its own way. It feels more like stubbornly fighting against the way the content was designed, rather than leaning into it.

Also, bonus points for groups going in with less than 48 people. It's easier to get 5 parties in the same instance than 6, DPS checks are lenient enough that 40 people is plenty, and it allows for random players in an instance to join without taking away from someone who came in with a group in advance.

[Gurgeh]

I have not cleared yet, but I have been pugging through PF and clearing bosses. This is absolutely doable with random players. The "discord only" and "premade only" and "static only" mentality is a detriment in its own way. It feels more like stubbornly fighting against the way the content was designed, rather than leaning into it.

Also, bonus points for groups going in with less than 48 people. It's easier to get 5 parties in the same instance than 6, DPS checks are lenient enough that 40 people is plenty, and it allows for random players in an instance to join without taking away from someone who came in with a group in advance.

Its nice to finally hear this from someone.
This was what I wondered.
And that the only problem here, is a huge portion of the player base doesn't get that this content is supposed to be pregressed like the majority of people have to.
Again, and again, and again.
Where there is no entitlement at all to think that just because you've seen mechanic C, and you can do A,B perfectly, that you will get to see C again for another 7 days of trying. You play and you play and you play, and you communicate, and educate, until the playerbase is good enough.
Instead, high end just scared every casual if when casuals should have been queuing on every instance the moment they got 20.
The requirement for queuing wasn't supposed to be " can I clear?", it was just supposed to be "can I queue?"
Then we run in, again and again, and again and again, and...
But no, I've hit my prog point and I'm not going back! (Progliar, progliar)

[Bryson]

I have not cleared yet, but I have been pugging through PF and clearing bosses. This is absolutely doable with random players. The "discord only" and "premade only" and "static only" mentality is a detriment in its own way. It feels more like stubbornly fighting against the way the content was designed, rather than leaning into it.

Also, bonus points for groups going in with less than 48 people. It's easier to get 5 parties in the same instance than 6, DPS checks are lenient enough that 40 people is plenty, and it allows for random players in an instance to join without taking away from someone who came in with a group in advance.

??? how do you pug FT "through pf"
how do you sync with all the other parties when all of you queue for OC to ensure you get in the same instance?

"It feels more like stubbornly fighting against the way the content was designed, rather than leaning into it."
This is extremely funny considering they're going to apologize during the LL. .idk what planet you're on if you unironically think this went according to plan... if it did, they wouldn't feel the need to address community feedback

[Colter_Hildibrand]

??? how do you pug FT "through pf"
how do you sync with all the other parties when all of you queue for OC to ensure you get in the same instance?

"It feels more like stubbornly fighting against the way the content was designed, rather than leaning into it."
This is extremely funny considering they're going to apologize during the LL. .idk what planet you're on if you unironically think this went according to plan... if it did, they wouldn't feel the need to address community feedback

When going in through PF (which is particularly common right now as general strats are being popularized and the content is new, but that may change as time goes on) the syncing of other parties works the same as you would with a discord group. You recruit until you have enough people (unfortunately it's most of a Forked Tower group currently because instances are small -likely for the sake of everyone in the instance being able to enter CEs- and it's unlikely to get very many random players in your instance to join), time when you queue together, possibly change the queue setting for the leader to a random language that isn't used on your DC, and hope for the best. This is why I pointed out that you can bring 5 parties instead of 6 because it's easier to get all 5 parties into the same instance that way.

I'm not saying that the content isn't without flaws. I'm saying that it's designed to be doable with random people. Last I checked, PF still counts as PUG because they're random people who you may not ever see again. I'm also guessing they went with this design for entry due to feedback from DRS (which is extremely hard to do without a separate group in discord or something, as opposed to BA, which I've joined and cleared randomly in unplanned runs as they show up in the instance). Community feedback is important, but the community should also try to adjust for the content a bit. As an example, I saw a player trying to encourage players wanting to do FT to fill a party in PF, have the leader set their status to RP, and when they queue, the leader would go sit by the campfire for a while, making it easy to see that there's interest in that instance. The player encouraging this was trying to find a solution, a compromise, leaning into the intended random entry design. Do I know the best solution? No. But I do know that a community that persists in complaining and acting in animosity towards one another and towards the dev team is not the best solution (once again, feedback is good, but the way it's expressed is important)

[Mawlzy]

When going in through PF (which is particularly common right now as general strats are being popularized and the content is new, but that may change as time goes on) the syncing of other parties works the same as you would with a discord group. You recruit until you have enough people (unfortunately it's most of a Forked Tower group currently because instances are small -likely for the sake of everyone in the instance being able to enter CEs- and it's unlikely to get very many random players in your instance to join), time when you queue together, possibly change the queue setting for the leader to a random language that isn't used on your DC, and hope for the best. This is why I pointed out that you can bring 5 parties instead of 6 because it's easier to get all 5 parties into the same instance that way.

I'm not saying that the content isn't without flaws. I'm saying that it's designed to be doable with random people. Last I checked, PF still counts as PUG because they're random people who you may not ever see again. I'm also guessing they went with this design for entry due to feedback from DRS (which is extremely hard to do without a separate group in discord or something, as opposed to BA, which I've joined and cleared randomly in unplanned runs as they show up in the instance). Community feedback is important, but the community should also try to adjust for the content a bit. As an example, I saw a player trying to encourage players wanting to do FT to fill a party in PF, have the leader set their status to RP, and when they queue, the leader would go sit by the campfire for a while, making it easy to see that there's interest in that instance. The player encouraging this was trying to find a solution, a compromise, leaning into the intended random entry design. Do I know the best solution? No. But I do know that a community that persists in complaining and acting in animosity towards one another and towards the dev team is not the best solution (once again, feedback is good, but the way it's expressed is important)

I have to say, I'm quite impressed with this.

As noted elsewhere, the cipher system and the fact you cannot choose which instance you enter is a big red sign from the devs saying: "This content is not designed for a 48-person premade." And yet, because that is what raiders know, they ignored the sign and followed usual practice. Some friction ensued.

It's encouraging that some players read the sign, comprehended it, and then set about figuring out how to tackle the content.

That doesn't alter the fact the design is terrible, but I always like seeing players think outside the box.

[Voidmage]

I'm not saying that the content isn't without flaws. I'm saying that it's designed to be doable with random people. Last I checked, PF still counts as PUG because they're random people who you may not ever see again.

The worst is that using PF technically doesn’t even seem to be allowed.
It is unlikely to happen here but but on the Japanese side there apparently was a case of a GM warning someone for trying to recruit in the DRS (Gunhildr there) tab in PF.
Granted I don’t know how true it is but if even the Japanese have problems with pugging…

I don’t know how to post links on mobile but the discussion is at page 88 on the Japanese forum thread.
Technically it isn’t allowed to recruit in the wrong sections of PF so… yeah.

[Colter_Hildibrand]

The worst is that using PF technically doesn’t even seem to be allowed.
It is unlikely to happen here but but on the Japanese side there apparently was a case of a GM warning someone for trying to recruit in the DSR (Gunhildr there) tab in PF.
Granted I don’t know how true it is but if even the Japanese have problems with pugging…

I don’t know how to post links on mobile but the discussion is at page 88 on the Japanese forum thread.
Technically it isn’t allowed to recruit in the wrong sections of PF so… yeah.

That GM warning is true. I play on the Japanese side. Now instead of the recruitments being a single one listed under DRS (since it's the only way to fill up 48 people in a single PF recruitement), it's multiple individual PF listings for South Horn (which is what the content technically is, and absolutely is allowed), and specifying what party they are in the group. Honestly, not a big deal for pugging, and the adjustment was smooth. Probably better now actually, since having the DRS PF meant that after they filled up they needed to disband and individually invite party members again to queue. I still see PF listings for FT daily too.

[Voidmage]

Ah, thank you for the clarification.
Appreciate it because I didn’t see a follow up to the situation (though I haven’t read the thread to the end).