Freaking gacha games respect my time more than Demiatmas, and that's sad

[Ozalius]

Then go play those gacha slop games instead of crying because you can't finish the relic in 2 weeks since the patch drop.

I have my relic but keep white knighting a game that ask you to pay just to update a game.
40% approval the last 30 days on steam it just show how trash this game is.
5.3 on metacritic

[StarRosie]

Try again, ShB didn't have stupidly low rng for their fate drops. They were guaranteed drops, but nice seeing that the fallacy strawman that "people are mad because it's a grind" is still going strong I see.

It really boggles the mind how some of these folks spit out insane hyperbole just to seem 'better' or 'more reasonable' than everyone else. Only to look...really dumb.

"Wanting the relic within the first 12 hours of the patch?? How unreasonable. Maybe the content isn't for you."

Actually, that's a perfectly reasonable expectation going off previous relics. (No, I'm not talking the EW relic.) This isn't even the first UPGRADE step, it is the ACQUISITION step. And going off previous relic quests, the acquisition step is often a very low grind or something quick and easy. So expecting similar, is not wanting a handout as some seem to love putting it. It's perfectly reasonable.

ShB was just buying the Thavnairian Scalepowder, which was 1k tomes. Eureka's was 100 Protean Crystals aka 50 Anemos crystals at minimum. HW's was the 6 luminous crystals, which even back on the launch for the anima relics, the drop rates were reasonable for the luminous crystals and I had my animated weapon by the second day. And that's with a job. The longest and most involved acquisition step is the ARR one. And even then, wasn't that hard. Hell, the infamous Atma step for the ARR relics that this is riffing on, was the second upgrade step. Which is about where I would expect the grind to start getting longer.

For the acquisition step of the current relics to last not just several days for some, but weeks for others, is kinda stupid. Even for a one time grind. It's kinda stupid. A grind is fine, it is actually welcome in my eyes. But this ain't it folks. This ain't it. If it was the 2nd upgrade like the atma step? I'd be more willing to defend it. But...it's the acquisition step.

So, I'm with you when it comes to a lot of this.

[Kuroka]

And on top the weapon is already outdated, besides the substats...

[Kozh]

I have my relic but keep white knighting a game that ask you to pay just to update a game.
40% approval the last 30 days on steam it just show how trash this game is.
5.3 on metacritic

Me, white knighting this game? Lol, lmao even. Look into my post history if you think I am part of the white knight. I just try to be a bit reasonable when it comes to criticizing the game. There are more pressing and objective issue when it comes to Occult Crescent. I just disagree that the RNG is a problem.
I mean, look at you and bunch of other complainers who turns out already get their demiatma done. So much for bad RNG amirite.

[Jaltaer]

Oh yes it is comparable
Square enix is making me pay for a game that is really bad since 6.1, it's asking me to pay for a sub just to play, just to be met with Dawntrail
Meanwhile genshin and hsr I can play whenever I want for free, and the 5€ sub is plenty enough, you even have peoples that can get their favorite characters maxed constellation with just the subs, stop acting like the gachas games are unpullables crap, meanwhile ff14 they put in my face yet again with discord content

6.1 came out in 2022.... you've been paying to play a game you hate for the past three years?

Have you considered... playing another game? I'm not even saying this in defense of the relic grind, I'm just legit saying play another game at this point. Maybe stick with the gacha crap you keep glazing or something...

[Mikey_R]

Actually, that's a perfectly reasonable expectation going off previous relics. (No, I'm not talking the EW relic.) This isn't even the first UPGRADE step, it is the ACQUISITION step. And going off previous relic quests, the acquisition step is often a very low grind or something quick and easy. So expecting similar, is not wanting a handout as some seem to love putting it. It's perfectly reasonable.

ShB was just buying the Thavnairian Scalepowder, which was 1k tomes. Eureka's was 100 Protean Crystals aka 50 Anemos crystals at minimum. HW's was the 6 luminous crystals, which even back on the launch for the anima relics, the drop rates were reasonable for the luminous crystals and I had my animated weapon by the second day. And that's with a job. The longest and most involved acquisition step is the ARR one. And even then, wasn't that hard. Hell, the infamous Atma step for the ARR relics that this is riffing on, was the second upgrade step. Which is about where I would expect the grind to start getting longer.

Actually actually, you have not obtained a relic weapon until it has that purple backgound, which is even acknowledged by the game as it is the first time the weapon description adds in the fact you have a relic weapon. All the steps before are just stages to get to the initial relic weapon, just like the unfinished relic in the ARR quests is a stage in getting the actual relic weapon. This is then further emphasised by the fact these stages come out at the same time. Rather than making one long quest for the HW relics, they split it up.

So, with this said, you have massively downplayed the grind for both the HW and SB relics. Starting with SB, to get the relic, you needed 1300 protean crystals and 3 Pazuzu feather, which I should remind everyone that you couldn't trade in Protean Crystals to get. You also needed (almost) max level in Eureka to get the 3 Pazuzu Feather from the FATE (assuming Gold).

HW was even grindier, you need 18 Luminous Crystals, 3 per zone, for the first stage (if you didn't trade in a Relic Zeta), run 10 dungeons, then the absolute grind that is getting the required items to forge the Anima weapon proper. Grinding out those items, at the time, took a long time as anyone who was around at the time will tell you.

Also, talking of ARR, it wasn't easy to get these Relic weapons on release. The base weapon was harder to farm out, not being able to unsync Wanderer's Palace for the weapon material for crafting, the Dhorme Chimera was harder to kill and took significantly longer, that it does not, so much so the strat on the hill was king. Hydra was also a bit of a roadblock for some people, taking several attempts to beat, then we have the infamous Titan Hard, that was a roulette as to whether the group could kill it or not. Whilst obtaining this weapon doesn't take as long, at the time, it did require some amount of skill.

Of course, over time, these things have been made easier, but on release, they were all grinds in their own right and the fact you had to mis-represent these grinds to try and make a point. Getting the first stage of the relic was only made easier in ShB and EW. The fact the current Phantom Weapon is a grind is going back to the roots of the weapon itself, which are meant to be time investments over skill investments and even looking back, this grind isn't that bad.

[Tahmamo]

Try again, ShB didn't have stupidly low rng for their fate drops. They were guaranteed drops, but nice seeing that the fallacy strawman that "people are mad because it's a grind" is still going strong I see.

And another one.

And another.

Just an FYI, I would rather have the ShB relic grind since, as you pointed out, it didn't have the stupidly high variance of RNG while still feeling like you were working for something, which was the point of my post.

[Kaurhz]

Tbh as much as I wanna call this hyperbole, it's actually really difficult to disagree -- Seeing as there's not really much respect going on around here in the first place. RNG-focused grinds are quite possibly the laziest attempts at adding a grind in this game, most especially in the manner they have.

[StarRosie]

Actually actually, you have not obtained a relic weapon until it has that purple backgound.

This is just being needlessly pedantic. As this only really applies to 2 out of the 6 relic quests. That being HW and SB. Even if you completely ignore the EW relics, that is 2 out of 5. You get a purple weapon by the end of the first ARR quest. So the hair splitting over the purple backgrounds is just trying to clump multiple quests into one for HW. And makes SB look even worse as, if we DID fuss over the purple background, that means we never acquired our relic till Pagos in 4.36. As the Anemos and Pagos states are still blue backgrounds. Only shifting to purple when they reach Elemental. So that's FIVE states of the relic weapon 'not being a relic weapon' if we fuss over the purple background. Even if we did account for all three phases of the Anemos weapons, the only 'hard' part of that, is Pazuzu. You could literally throw anemos crystals at Gerolt for the protean crystals. And if you did NM trains in Eureka, you would be swimming in Anemos crystals by the time you reach the Pazuzu fight. Of which, getting to the fight itself was more the challenge. What with the weather and time requirements, and the long AF respawn timer effectively making Pazuzu a once per instance fight.

As for the HW relics...I'mma be honest, I had to go double check this cause 3.15 was about 10 years ago and 3.57 was 8 years ago. So I memory blanked there when it came to the required amount going down. Even then, the drop rates were approximated at around 20% to 25% before 3.57 and while yes, personal experience, I remember having Luminous Crystals done by day two. For ARR? I will fully admit that I wasn't there for the OG relic grind of ARR. I did it during HW while waiting for the next anima steps. So I differ to your recounting on that one. But from that recounting? I do not see that first quest taking two weeks or more. If we go by each relic's first quest (The acquisition step), then my point still stands. An expectation that this first quest not take two weeks or more for some, is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

But I overall get the feeling this is just going to be one of those eternal back and forth moments.

EDIT!
In fact, knowing this is probably going to become one of those back and forth moments over hairsplitting and needlessly pedantic arguments And the usual stress that all brings. I'mma just walk away for my own mental health, because that's more important to me than being "right" on the internet. I'm gonna go get my last demiatma and then move on to tinkering with solo runs again.

[Kranel_San]

Try again, ShB didn't have stupidly low rng for their fate drops. They were guaranteed drops, but nice seeing that the fallacy strawman that "people are mad because it's a grind" is still going strong I see.

Could you explain how a 20% drop chance from CEs is 'Stupidly low RNG' as you put it? Especially when CEs never stop spawning every 2-3 minutes?

Perhaps you might have forgotten or simply didn't experience it at the time, but ShB relics back in the day asked you to repeat the grind process from scratch. Let's compare ShB and DT relics first steps.


ShB Relics Step 1:

Collect 20 Yellow memories, 20 blue memories, and 20 red memories. A total of 60 per weapon that can either drop from Bozja FATEs, CEs, or from specific HW zones, depending on the color.


DT Relics Step 1:

Collect three pieces of each six demiatmas. A total of 18 demiatmas that can either drop from OC Fates, CEs, or from specific DT zones, depending on the color. A process that is required to be done ONCE, and then you can just get as many Step 1 relic weapons as you like by spending tomestones.


Even if the drop rates are officially much lower than their ShB or any prior expansion counterparts. The point stands that DT only requires you to do it ONCE while ShB and prior asked you to repeat the grind process for each weapon you wish to obtain.

In conclusion, as someone who did ShB relics live when they first came out years ago, and have just finished taking my time to complete DT grind. DT grind is much more job-friendly, and it is a good direction that respects and encourages players to have multiple jobs, all while still being a grindy process as relics used to be prior to EW.