Occult Crescent is great but the relic grind is the worst of both worlds.

[Asako]

How are people complaining about a relic grind 3 days after the content came out. By just levelling to 20 I got over 7 of each Atma, similar drop rates with my FC mates. This is normal. People need to stop requesting handouts. This is the fastest relic yet.

[Kaurhz]

How are people complaining about a relic grind 3 days after the content came out. By just levelling to 20 I got over 7 of each Atma, similar drop rates with my FC mates. This is normal. People need to stop requesting handouts. This is the fastest relic yet.

People are complaining about it because it is not a well designed relic, what you got was essentially a one-time step relic where everything is frontload across that single step, as opposed to distributed across multiple steps and relics.

In the grand scheme of things, like the EW relic it will just be incredibly diluted because everything is focused on that sole step. It's nothing great, and at this point the only reason some people are praising this in the first place is because of the last expansion, and the fact they are finally getting something, and not necessarily whether it is well designed or not... Comparatively some people are a little more critical at whether it is well designed... Not whether it is a grind or not, but simply whether it is well designed -- Which it is not.

When I come around to doing it, I am not really going to have a reasonable level of satisfaction at completing it, and nor will it be anything special, because everything will just be so incredibly diluted by the fact that subsequent relics are just tome weapons.

[Valence]

People are complaining about it because it is not a well designed relic, what you got was essentially a one-time step relic where everything is frontload across that single step, as opposed to distributed across multiple steps and relics.

In the grand scheme of things, like the EW relic it will just be incredibly diluted because everything is focused on that sole step. It's nothing great, and at this point the only reason some people are praising this in the first place is because of the last expansion, and the fact they are finally getting something, and not necessarily whether it is well designed or not... Comparatively some people are a little more critical at whether it is well designed... Not whether it is a grind or not, but simply whether it is well designed -- Which it is not.

When I come around to doing it, I am not really going to have a reasonable level of satisfaction at completing it, and nor will it be anything special, because everything will just be so incredibly diluted by the fact that subsequent relics are just tome weapons.

Would it be better if the amount of tomes required was higher?

[Kaurhz]

Would it be better if the amount of tomes required was higher?

Would be better if they didn't do tomes back-to-back to be honest with you, as knowing how formulaic the game is, each relic step could more than possibly be a one-time quest completion grind, with subsequent relics costing 1500 tomestones or something of that sort. (Happy to be wrong)

I like the idea of one-time quests, as it does reach that middle-ground, but in the same vein, subsequent relics do need to have that element of feeling satisfying, as to be honest tomes just dilutes the value long-term, at least it does for me... Like, it could be 1500 tomes, it could be 2000, it could be 4000... It doesn't really transform the way people are interacting with the game at all, which is why I don't really like the idea of subsequent relics being tome grinds. So what you could end up with are steps that potentially take less time than a tome grind anyway, but still be far more satisfying because they actually demand you do something which isn't really already part of the core gameplay loop (e.g., roulettes). I can admit this is probably the hardest balance to reach.

There's always going to be a sum of people that dislike something (opinions are not really universal in a game this size and they never will), this much I can acknowledge, but I don't think this means the solution needs to be the most reductive one possible. I like the idea of subsequent relics being somewhat easier, but they still need to have that element where it changes how people interact with the game, and they still need to feel somewhat satisfying as to not dilute the value of the initial relic completely.

Unironically thank you for asking this question, as you're one of the few people seemingly interested in having a discussion which isn't just "You want it handed on a silver platter".

[Kaurhz]

I do wish there was a middle ground because I can see and understand why some people don't like the RNG, but also don't like the tomestone farming from Endwalker (or here for that matter). Nobody should feel like their path to earning a relic is a chore they don't want to do because of the sole method provided.

It's a shame that "two routes to get it" isn't literally "here, pick the way YOU want to earn it" and instead it sounds like its just "farm FATEs here, or farm FATEs over there".

So for me honestly, I don't mind grinds regardless of how long, like, I've done a lot of the tedious grinds this game has to offer and pretty consistently the longer-form steady progress-based ones have been my favorite... The progress has always been measurable so each day was satisfying to the see the progress. e.g., with the Divine Provider title it was really satisfying to see and progress with that . Same with doing all the Eureka weapons.

Whenever I've done RNG-based grinds, I have always found that I tend to be more focused on the end result rather than the actual journey it took to get there, so for me it just ruins the experience of actually doing it.

[AmiableApkallu]

I do wish there was a middle ground because I can see and understand why some people don't like the RNG, but also don't like the tomestone farming from Endwalker (or here for that matter).

The current Dawntrail relic weapon step is a literal godsend to people who prefer tomestone farming. They get 20 weapons to tomestone farm for, which is more than the 19 that Endwalker offered.

Meanwhile, anyone else who doesn't prefer tomestone farming gets a measly one weapon catered to their tastes, at best (maybe they don't like tomestones and they also don't like FATEs...).

So, yes, a "middle ground" would be great, but I suspect the tomestone farmers wouldn't like it.

[Valence]

Would be better if they didn't do tomes back-to-back to be honest with you, as knowing how formulaic the game is, each relic step could more than possibly be a one-time quest completion grind, with subsequent relics costing 1500 tomestones or something of that sort. (Happy to be wrong)

I like the idea of one-time quests, as it does reach that middle-ground, but in the same vein, subsequent relics do need to have that element of feeling satisfying, as to be honest tomes just dilutes the value long-term, at least it does for me... Like, it could be 1500 tomes, it could be 2000, it could be 4000... It doesn't really transform the way people are interacting with the game at all, which is why I don't really like the idea of subsequent relics being tome grinds. So what you could end up with are steps that potentially take less time than a tome grind anyway, but still be far more satisfying because they actually demand you do something which isn't really already part of the core gameplay loop (e.g., roulettes). I can admit this is probably the hardest balance to reach.

There's always going to be a sum of people that dislike something (opinions are not really universal in a game this size and they never will), this much I can acknowledge, but I don't think this means the solution needs to be the most reductive one possible. I like the idea of subsequent relics being somewhat easier, but they still need to have that element where it changes how people interact with the game, and they still need to feel somewhat satisfying as to not dilute the value of the initial relic completely.

Unironically thank you for asking this question, as you're one of the few people seemingly interested in having a discussion which isn't just "You want it handed on a silver platter".

I'm sorry but, how are fates something that isn't already in the gameplay loop?

[MicahZerrshia]

I'm sorry but, how are fates something that isn't already in the gameplay loop?

This is a mystery, because if they add something that isn't a circle/square arena or hallways leading to square/circle arenas, it's a fate. Those are the only 3 content option types this game has and tomes are a byproduct of all 3. How someone says fates are not a core gameplay loop and think they are making a point is wild. BuT pHaNtOm JoBs! BuT dEdIcAtEd ZoNeS! Yeah its still just a fate farm Rebecca.