The Atma Complaint: Length of Time/Acquisition Rate vs. Long-term Investment

[ForteNightshade]

We're not even a week into this patch, my god. No need to be that pessimistic.

And yet plenty of people do have their relics already despite it "not even being a week." That's the whole issue people have. RNG isn't fun when it's the only source of progression. Those aforementioned people put in less work and got rewarded based on sheer dumb luck. Are you surprised everyone else is a bit vexed?

[ZJyn]

Devil's advocate right back at you: there are a plethora of reasons the current relic grind is poorly designed.

Let's start with the initial quest relying on Atma.

Real talk for a second: next to nobody liked the Atma system from the ARR relic, and for good reason. It feels like a cheap way to inflate the initial quest's runtime, doesn't give the player a gauge on the work they have to do to complete their objective, and can bottom line make someone feel like they're wasting their time, especially if they spend several evenings doing everything the game is asking them to and still walk away with nothing to show for it.

The devs seemed to have learned this lesson, too. Rare drop atmas were ditched in favor of other systems that, while still requiring effort, allowed players to better understand how they were progressing through their grind. Eureka's currency, for example, was an uphill battle, but you always knew about where you stood on your relic's completion. Every step felt like progress.

This is good grind design. There were other problems with Eureka, sure, but the relic itself had a trajectory you could map.

"But it's just one time!" I hear someone furiously typing in attempt to one-up me. And here lies the second issue: Once we're done, we're right back to tomes, backsliding us straight back into the much reviled Endwalker relic grind all over again.

This is, as other have pointed out, the worst of both worlds, but i'll go a step further: In my opinion, it also runs completely counter to the design of their exploration zone. Because fates in the South Horn come and go so quickly and Critical Engagements don't feel very reliable in drops for the actual relic, people are instead funneled out and into the world to do Fates in the Dawntrail zones. Then, once the initial quest is done, people don't have to touch any of this content at all. It's roulettes or bust. Occult Crescent might as well not exist unless you have want to grind out the Phantom Jobs or side rewards.

Effectively, the devs designed this big, beautiful zone with a ton of neat boss mobs, lore to uncover, and nooks/crannies to explore... and instead of the relic working better *in* that zone or encouraging people to continue running things *in* that zone, it pushes people *out* of it, both in the initial step and afterwards.

That's... not good game design. Offering options to players is one thing. Actively pushing them out of the content is another. This means that Occult Crescent has a lifespan: one that is inextricably tied to how long it takes for the first flood of people to finish their initial quest and move on to their dungeon grind.

This means that everyone who wanted a relic quest series that actually makes good use of not only their time, but the exploration zone as a whole, were done dirty by the way they set this up. And it's a shame, too, because the Occult Crescent is fantastic.

[Rithy255]

I personally rather we had collect 1 of each for each jobs relic instead of 3 of each then tomes.

Idk I don't really like the current relic system.

[AmiableApkallu]

This has never been about the long term investment, it's been about 1) the limited methods required and 2) the inequalities between players in order to achieve it.

"Limited methods" is how most things in this game work; I don't understand why it comes up most loudly in the context of relic weapons.

Want the Field Commander's Coat? I hope you like Seal Rock. Want the axolotl mount? Go clear P12S. Etc. Etc. The only past relic step I can recall that offered anything resembling a meaningful choice was whether to turn in your ARR relic to start the HW one. Maybe there's a ShB relic step that offered 2+ significantly different options that I'm forgetting.

That said, "the grind" could at least be set up such that the amount of time required is bounded in a way that someone can work out.

[Nero-Voidstails]

I personally rather we had collect 1 of each for each jobs relic instead of 3 of each then tomes.

Idk I don't really like the current relic system.

I would be ok with that or a system that let you trade the atma you have for a other one you need.

or even like every hour spent in the instances give you a five percent more like 180 minute 0% boost 120 5% boost and 60 10% boost

[Voidmage]

The atma grind is completely fine as it is.
I am absolutely sick of this game being changed for instant gratification like it was in EW.
Occult Crescent is content I really enjoy since a long time and the last thing I want is the devs going back to how it all was in EW just because they overcorrect everything.

The problem arises when people ONLY want to rush the relic.
Just do the fates and ce's and the atmas drop naturaly. The relic also feels so much better after the whole rng grind.

Relics are SUPPOSED to take time, they are SUPPOSED to be a grind and past relics ALSO had rng in them.
If anything we just returned back to the style of relics where we originally came from. There were and are people who liked that style and we are finally back to having our old content back.
I want to grind, I want rng in my game and I am posting here just in the hope that SE sees that there are people who like how it is.

Honestly, the only thing I can give them flak for is the entrance mechanic into forked tower.

I would be ok with that or a system that let you trade the atma you have for a other one you need.

or even like every hour spent in the instances give you a five percent more like 180 minute 0% boost 120 5% boost and 60 10% boost

That is something I can agree with.
It's a middle ground without destroying what some of us find fun.

[Jeeqbit]

And yet plenty of people do have their relics already despite it "not even being a week." That's the whole issue people have. RNG isn't fun when it's the only source of progression. Those aforementioned people put in less work and got rewarded based on sheer dumb luck. Are you surprised everyone else is a bit vexed?

I'm among those, apparently. I've just done 3 hours per day (if that), a few hours of that was doing quests and exploring the map. So probably about 6 hours total excluding quests? I did CEs when they appeared, and have got 7 atma so far. Drop rate has felt good from CEs.

[Eastwall]

I just wish it is 30 crystals of each type rather than this rng... It just feels bad

[Kozh]

dude you don't get I don't you? when you start seeing all your friend getting relic and having put less time into it it's shit and I have to evoid a full zone because I have 3 from one like it should have at least a atma trader for the one you have and can't use but true gonna white knight

And yet plenty of people do have their relics already despite it "not even being a week." That's the whole issue people have. RNG isn't fun when it's the only source of progression. Those aforementioned people put in less work and got rewarded based on sheer dumb luck. Are you surprised everyone else is a bit vexed?

Yeah, I don't get that at all. Like the other people said, it's not a race. It's not like aiming for BiS with savage weapon drop. Why should it matter to me that other people already done with their relic? Yoj will get the relic eventually anyway. Plus they probably will buff the droprate next relic patch.

I'm prone to being envious of others, but this level of jealousy is just weird to me.

[CidHeiral]

Yeah, I don't get that at all. Like the other people said, it's not a race. It's not like aiming for BiS with savage weapon drop. Why should it matter to me that other people already done with their relic? Yoj will get the relic eventually anyway. Plus they probably will buff the droprate next relic patch.

I'm prone to being envious of others, but this level of jealousy is just weird to me.

It's typical Main Character Syndrome.